could over filling cause this?

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Wiggy
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could over filling cause this?

#1

Post by Wiggy »

So me and some people I work with are at this visual man tracking class (kind of like search and rescue) and this class requires you to use lanterns for night tracking. I use a frankenlantern, most everyone else is using propane, and my boss is using one of those new dual fuel lanterns he picked up at walmart last year. He's used it a few times, but he's not into lanterns, they're just tools to him. Never had any problems with it before. Well he goes to pump it up and fuel starts coming out of the pump. Every time he moves it, more fuel comes out.

My first thought was something has gotten stuck in the check valve, and he didn't want to mess with it after that and ended up borrowing a propane lantern, but as I got to thinking about it, would over filling the fount cause that? I guess I didn't think about it because he uses one of those filter funnels to fill with that's supposed to keep people from over filling, but I suppose if you tilted the lantern you could probably get more in there.
Ray
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could over filling cause this?

#2

Post by REJ2 »

If its one of the gray duel fuel lanterns then likely he is not screwing closed the pump stem after pumping and relying solely on the ball in the check valve to seal it.
Bob   
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Wiggy
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could over filling cause this?

#3

Post by Wiggy »

It's the new 285. I guess my larger question is where the air intake is on these? I don't think he had any pressure in it to begin with, since he had just filled it up, and when he rotated the pump knob and started pumping to put pressure in it, that's when the fuel started coming out. LOTS OF IT, lol. It was a mess. I told him I'd take it home and pull the check valve to make sure it's not jammed up or anything, but I think he's set on propane now and I haven't had a chance to look at it.
Ray
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Chucker
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could over filling cause this?

#4

Post by Chucker »

A bad NRV is first guess.

He could have a crack in the joint/solder of the air tube that goes to the top of the fount. Not unheard of I guess. New lantern time from Coleman maybe?
Chuck
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boneweed
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could over filling cause this?

#5

Post by boneweed »

Sounds like a good opportunity for you to score a free lantern.
curlyjoe_99
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could over filling cause this?

#6

Post by curlyjoe_99 »

clean it.... lol

really, dump the fuel from the pump tube and the fount. do the carb cleaner thing on the CV and add some light oil throughout the tube to reduce rust.
force some of the light oil into the fount via the pump to ensure the CF is flushed out.
it could be over filled but now that fuel was in the pump tube it needs to be cleaned a bit and serviced or the lantern will never work.

do a function check and see if the CV is bad or not



Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
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In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

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Mister_Wilson
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could over filling cause this?

#7

Post by Mister_Wilson »

Would it be possible that the cv was never tightened properly and has loosened?
John
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mgmlvks
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could over filling cause this?

#8

Post by mgmlvks »

Overfilling is possibly a contributing factor - if the lantern was "tipped" to facilitate filling, it can put enough fuel in to cover the discharge tube from the pump, and coupled with a leaky or stuck CV - get pushed back out the pump (instead of just air) before the Air stem is screwed shut.
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215, FAS #20 - Confusing Future Generations of Collectors One Lantern at a Time
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Gunhippie
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could over filling cause this?

#9

Post by Gunhippie »

The thing to note is that this is an unsafe condition--you don't want to have fuel gush out of the pump tube when the lantern is running and seems to need a little more pressure.

It is a CV problem. If you can't fix it in place using some carb cleaner or acetone (keep both off the paint), then it needs to be pulled.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
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mgmlvks
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could over filling cause this?

#10

Post by mgmlvks »

Gunhippie wrote: The thing to note is that this is an unsafe condition

Yes - I should have stated this as well.
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215, FAS #20 - Confusing Future Generations of Collectors One Lantern at a Time
"In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present"Francis Bacon
(and - for those who have asked - avatar from postcard and says "Coming Home by Rail".  https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4595/2743 ... be00_z.jpg  
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Alb23t
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could over filling cause this?

#11

Post by Alb23t »

I would simply poor out some fuel and try again. The only way that fuel enters the cv is when fuel has the ability to get into the air tube of the pump system. Once the fuel level is reduced significantly, pump it to clear the tube and see if fuel still gets drawn in. If it does, you can't fix it. This would mean that there is a leak toward the bottom of the pump tube inside the fount. If the pump clears properly, then your good to go. Let us know what happens after pouring a cup of fuel out.
Al B  [colemanlanternlogo]

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Wiggy
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could over filling cause this?

#12

Post by Wiggy »

The thing to note is that this is an unsafe condition

Oh we never got close to lighting it. He was attempting to pressurize it to light the thing when fuel started coming out of the pump and spilled all over the table. One day the lantern was fine, the next day it did this.

After that he emptied the fuel out of it, put the lantern in the back of his truck, and hasn't touched it since so I haven't had a chance to even take a look in there. I was hoping it might just be some kind of simple operator error vs a real problem with the lantern. I guess I won't know for sure unless he wants it worked on, but at this point I think he's leaning heavily toward swapping to propane.
Ray
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could over filling cause this?

#13

Post by hurricaner »

It could have been an operator error as was stated earlier if he tilted the lantern in order to completely fill it and then put the cap on. Lanterns are designed with an air space at the top must only be filled in the level position. The check valve would also have to be leaking a little but that is not uncommon and the lantern will still operate if you screw the stem in. If it does it with a level fill then the pump tube or air tube has been compromised and it is toast.

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JimL
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could over filling cause this?

#14

Post by JimL »

Ray,

I don't think it's just a matter of over-filling. The main issue I find with over-filling is that with the reduced air volume, you will need to pump up the lantern again very soon. In my opinion, the primary reason this happened was a combination of fuel level, and the lantern not carried vertically. I have had this happen on two of my lanterns. Coleman check valves do a great job of slowing, and usually stopping air escaping, but don't seem to have the same effect with a liquid.

I suggest that if this is a concern, pressurize/pump-up the lantern after carrying it to its light-up destination. Otherwise, fuel sloshing around can make it into the air tube. By pumping it up after it reaches its destination, if there is fuel in the air tube, it will be pumped into the fount.

Here's a good picture showing the inside of the fount. As you can see, with a full fount and tipping the lantern, fuel can get into the air tube which will drop down to the check valve. Picture credit is to nfadude who did cutaway's of a 220.
air tube.JPG

If interested, the entire cut-away thread is here:
http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/220228f-cutaways-6341220?pid=1278000103
-Jim

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Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
curlyjoe_99
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could over filling cause this?

#15

Post by curlyjoe_99 »

this thought just hit me. it is possible he didn't close the pump tight the day before and the lantern ended up on its side. it is easy for these things to build their own pressure during a warm day in the sun. the two combined could easily cause the effect your boss experienced. I would consider asking him if he minds if you take a look at it and see if you can get it running.

just another idea hope it helps
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

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