200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
Tony Press Show full post »
Matty
Guff wrote:
We just don't know yet, but I'm sure evidence will turn up eventually.
 


Would this suffice? Sorry but I'm having trouble grabbing the ad, It will be done properly later this arvo.

1934

au.jpg 
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Lamp_Doctor
Matty .
You looked at the wrong price for a 242b its $5/95.[sEm_oops2]
Will send up some reading glasses for you 5+.
So thats close to our price also depends on the stock market price of our dollar 
at the time to .
Bob
Lamp Doctor Bob  likes the smell of burning kero inside house in BIG TILLEYS.
Its better than taking drugs and cheaper.
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Matty
Bob,

Yes, I misread it, it is indeed $5.95. In the end, it doesn't make a lot of difference.

The point I'm trying to make is, How can the product be sold in Australia at a price point anywhere near that of America because of all the added costs. According to evidence they are though.

Those added costs include, shipping the lamps to Australia from Canada, then transporting the lamps to remote areas of Australia - in 1934, no mean feat in itself. Then, the at least 30% import tariff that had to be paid on each unit.

Surely, it is reasonable to expect the end units price to be far higher than what they sold in America for.
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Tony Press
Matty

Now, that iron ad is very interesting, being "All British and Australian" made in 1934. It may have been assembled in Australia; or partly made in Australia; or indeed manufactured here.

The speckled irons never really matched the US or Canadian livery (I don't know about UK).


On a related matter, the Australian Pound was pegged to the British Pound 1:1 until the early thirties, when the Australian Government devalued it relative to the British Pound. The new value was 1.25 Australian Pounds to 1 British Pound. Around 1931 the Australian Government significantly increased tariffs on many overseas manufactured goods. Before that time, along with a favoured tariff regime for Commonwealth countries, importing Coleman products from Canada and the UK would have been cheaper than from the USA. It may well have been relatively cheaper after the tariff increases, but I'm not sure.

The speckled Coleman instant-lite iron appears in the 1950s Coleman-Thomas catalogue, along with a Peerman iron sold by Thomas'.

I wonder whether an Australian company made parts or all of the irons under licence to Coleman?

Cheers

Tony
Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
Quote
Matty
Tony Press wrote:
Matty Now, that iron ad is very interesting, being "All British and Australian" made in 1934. It may have been assembled in Australia; or partly made in Australia; or indeed manufactured here.


Tony,

Yes indeed the ad is interesting.

The ad may have connotations of all three things you described. I suppose the quest will have to continue.

Around 1931 the Australian Government significantly increased tariffs on many overseas manufactured goods. Before that time, along with a favoured tariff regime for Commonwealth countries, importing Coleman products from Canada and the UK would have been cheaper than from the USA. It may well have been relatively cheaper after the tariff increases, but I'm not sure. QUOTE]

Keep in mind, I'm talking about 1936 pricing which is a long 5 or 6 years of tariff increases. So the point about things being cheaper to import from British countries prior to 1931 is moot. At least I think it is, in this case.

Once the tariffs started it's quite clear no overseas companies were spared British or otherwise. We know they were hurting Coleman as Thomas of Coleman attended the request made by McDowell of Wizard Light Co to further increase the tariffs and Thomas argued against it.

It is at that tariff hearing that Thomas, to me, made a quite enlightening statement for us researchers to mull over.

This is the third time I've posted this because I think it is crucial.

C, J. Thomas, of the Coleman QuickLite Coy. (Australia), said his company was purley Australian, but found it was necessary to import several lines from America.

Apart from me, no one else seems to think that means anything significant. It is what has kept me in this argument. If that isn't saying we do manufacture in this country but not all our products, I'm not sitting here typing.

I can't recall what year it was when Coleman Canada sent one of their high ranking executives to Australia to bemoan the tariffs. No, I'm not talking about Terrell (or whatever his name was) in 1950.


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Matty
Sorry, I don't know why the second time I quoted you my reply has gone into the box too.
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Matty
Tony Press wrote:
being "All British and Australian" made in 1934. It may have been assembled in Australia; or partly made in Australia; or indeed manufactured here.


Perhaps someone could tell me if there were more than one model Coleman iron in 1936.

The Being "All British and Australian Made" may refer to there is a model/s imported from Canada and another model/s that is made in Australia.
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Guff
Matty. The term "All British" is also stamped on all the brass Handi lantern logo tags right through from early production to late production (1950's to late 1970's). Early on there may have been some British connection with the first Kero Pet mode, but certainly not later. If anything the early Handi Swift Lite lanterns(1940's) had an American AGM influence.
I did my schooling and grew up in the 50's and 60's and remember quite well the lack of confidence Australians had as a nation and the guilt of our convict past. Our educators tried to install in us "All things British" were the only good things, and we children had to speak and write like the British. As such the term "All British" was simply an advertising ploy at, and prior to that time, and you would see it stamped on a lot of consumer goods to let people know their product was better than other products. As such, I don't believe there is any British connection to the Coleman irons, so it may well be "All Australian" made.

Keith.
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Lamp_Doctor
There were a number of coleman irons about then .
#3 #4 #4A last 2 had blue handles and base
Bob
Lamp Doctor Bob  likes the smell of burning kero inside house in BIG TILLEYS.
Its better than taking drugs and cheaper.
Quote
Matty
Keith,

So, that seems I have convinced at least you that Coleman were making products prior to 1950, in Australia.

I'm quite certain I will eventually find other products.

There have simply been too many clues to deny otherwise. Whilst I can't go back in time and physically watch them make a product, as I said, so many clues pointing to Coleman manufacturing in Australia.

One of the earliest clues I found was Coleman being represented in a Western Australian Manufacturers exhibition. The article that accompanied that exhibit explained what the exhibit was about.

It wasn't a trade show. It was about those companies that were physically manufacturing products within Western Australia. The point of the exhibit was to show the citizens of Western Australia what companies were manufacturing in Western Australia so those citizens could support those companies.

The reasons for those companies needing support was because as the companies grew they would employ more and more workers which meant jobs for Western Australia.

The article was critical of Western Australians lacklustre support of local companies which meant unemployment and also money from Western Australia streaming to the eastern states.

Coleman would not have been represented at that exhibition if they weren't manufacturing.

That article and exhibition was from 1937.
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Matty
Lamp_Doctor wrote:
There were a number of coleman irons about then .
#3 #4 #4A last 2 had blue handles and base
Bob

Bob,

So the # 2 ,3, 4 and 4A were all manufactured at the same time?
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Guff
Matty. You have to remember I'm easily convinced about many things, lol.

I'm not a researcher, so what I say in this topic is not evidenced based. However I do read everything the good gpa researchers, and that includes Tony and you, have to say about lanterns, lamps, stoves and irons. There is still a lot of unknowns with Australian gpa manufacturing and it will be you and other researchers who will eventually make the picture clearer. I will go back to concentrating on what I do best and that is finding old lanterns and bringing them back to life.

Keith.
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Matty
Keith,

Damn, ok back to the fence you go.

I'm happy to trudge on alone. I know of many products like irons, stoves and lamps that were once manufactured in Australia that most haven't heard of simply because none have surfaced. I have put them aside as I do others things. Perhaps though, those manufacturers may hold some clues as to whom manufactured Coleman products.

It's not too much of a stretch for me to think there is a possibility that Coleman Quick-lite Co of Australia contracted some of these now unknown manufacturers to produce Coleman products.

I can't think which year it was and I'm too lazy to look now, I think it may have been 1927 when there was a sharp decline in Coleman imports.

Oh, and btw, I'm just a bit time wannabe researcher with zero skills. It's not a good idea to mention Tony and I in the same breath when talking researchers. Tony is a 40 year professional. I'm a 6mths hacker.
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Matty
Keith,

I forgot to mention.

What I'm about to say is just an observation. Bob and I get along just fine and speak on the phone now and then. I don't want anyone to think I have a problem with Bob as I don't, as I said, it's just an observation about him and others too.

I know from the beginning many thought and still think I'm wasting my time. It's just too stupid for words that Coleman were manufacturing prior to 1950.....

I was once told (not by Bob) to stop trying to prove I'm right. I don't quite get that as I'm not trying to prove myself right, I'm searching for the facts. I'm not quite sure how you are meant to research without proving something right or wrong. I'll say this, the person that told me that, should stop holding onto his beliefs that he is right, hence, not looking at facts with an open mind.

Getting back to Bob. He posted yesterday, and quite correctly too, that I had made a mistake by saying Coleman sold lamps for $7.95 when in fact it was $5.95. I appreciated Bob pointing that out because misreads, and typos can have a big impact on the message you are trying to get across.

What my observation was though, that Bob took the time to correct that but didn't take the time to say wow, that ad, that states "Made In Australia" really means something. It's like something that hasn't been seen before and can potentially have a big impact on whether Coleman were indeed manufacturing in Australia prior to 1950 is just a minor glitch in the belief they weren't manufactured prior to 1950.

I've stated before, and it still gets sidestepped, about Thomas' evidence given at the  tariff enquiry. It's like he never said said it, or the fact that the owner of Coleman Quick-Lite Co of Australia wouldn't know what he is talking about.

It's in black and white he said it. I'm either not going to let it be ignored or give up.

Ah, bugger it, like you I'll give up as it is a waste of time.

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fireball501
The sad thing is if Herb Ebendorf were still around he could answer some of these questions.
Iccc # C-061
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Scouterjan
back to the Irons. Not sure if a #1 & #2 & #3 were made in Canada as I haven't seen any but all other models were as far as I can tell  made up into the latter years when US stopped producing them, Canada continued up into the 70's? so I thing they followed the same time line
#4   1929
#5   1929-1933
#4A  1930-1948
#8  1936
#8A  1937-1941

Then the newer series

your picture iron looks like a #4 so It very well could have been made in Australia. As far as I know the#4 Speckled Blue iron is unique to Aus. even the nuts and bolts threads are unique to this iron. I suppose it could have been made in Canada but I can't see 2 seperate production lines happening considering all the extra tooling involved. There is a member on the CCF who did a side by side comparison of the 2 models. I will try and find it
Jan


Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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Matty
Scouterjan wrote:
There is a member on the CCF who did a side by side comparison of the 2 models. I will try and find it


Jan,

I know the exact post you are talking about. It was posted in relation to my 4A iron.

Once the poster mentioned about the screws etc being different to the Canadian ones, I knew then, they would have been made in Australia.

Knowing that small bit of evidence wouldn't have been enough to convince anyone of the prospect I then looked for and found the iron ad that states "Made In Australia"

I then lost interest in this topic, as I have now, and just filed the ad away.

[GiveUp]
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Lamp_Doctor
The Coleman paper I have here .
Coleman Quick-lite Co of australia
135 William St Melbourne
116 Harris St ,Ultimo, Sydney.
31 Bower Buldings,Charles St ,Adelaide
This paper is old and looking at the stuff in it is about 1926/1930
Lots of pictures etc looks to be USA stuff plus prices at the time in pounds etc
Looks like a lot of imported stuff here
CQ,BQ,HQ,PQ,No 333 Insect screen
LQ327 ,BLQ 327 LQ427 just out
# camp stove and stand MOdel 3 iron
Stove #322,#328
Cookers model 327. 326
Heater #4
Bob
Lamp Doctor Bob  likes the smell of burning kero inside house in BIG TILLEYS.
Its better than taking drugs and cheaper.
Quote
Matty
Lamp_Doctor wrote:
The Coleman paper I have here .
Coleman Quick-lite Co of australia
135 William St Melbourne
116 Harris St ,Ultimo, Sydney.
31 Bower Buldings,Charles St ,Adelaide
This paper is old and looking at the stuff in it is about 1926/1930
Lots of pictures etc looks to be USA stuff plus prices at the time in pounds etc
Looks like a lot of imported stuff here
CQ,BQ,HQ,PQ,No 333 Insect screen
LQ327 ,BLQ 327 LQ427 just out
# camp stove and stand MOdel 3 iron
Stove #322,#328
Cookers model 327. 326
Heater #4
Bob


Bob,

That list would have been very handy, it's a great list to sink your teeth into.

I, and Thomas of Coleman Quick-Lite never said they weren't importing, even though they were manufacturing in Australia. They of course were, as Thomas stated at the tariff enquiry.

Here it is one last time C, J. Thomas, of the Coleman QuickLite Coy. (Australia), said his company was purley Australian, but found it was necessary to import several lines from America.

What I have said is, I noticed at a point in time ( I can't remember what year exactly) that imports by Coleman decreased noticeably.

Anyway, I've lost interest in this topic and will leave it for others.
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Guff
Matty. Be assured, if I come across any hard evidence, like a made in Australia Coleman lantern dated much earlier than 1950, then Tony and you will be first to know. I will also continue to provide my 2 cents worth of comment on topics which catch my attention. 
I'm just pulling back from getting involved in making "it could be this or it could be that" type comments on this topic, which only seem to perpetuate the discussion to keep it going full circle once again. I will wait for some hard evidence to emerge, and make comment on that.
As I said, that evidence will come from research being done by people like Tony, yourself and others who have posted on this subject. I commend all of you for your commitment and the time you put into doing that research.
I've got to get back to fixing my lanterns.

Keith. 
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Matty
Winston wrote:
Lost interest just when it is getting to be a good discussion? 

Where was it you read or saw that "imports by Coleman decreased noticeably".    It would be good to have that source cited along with a date.


Winston,

Wow, what an impressive first post. It is one thoroughly deserving of a response.

I'll answer your 2nd question first.

It is from many, many, hours of research. There is quite a clear decline in Coleman imports into this country. Because I've lost interest, or more so heart, in the subject, I simply couldn't be bothered going back through the stuff I have saved.

To the 1st question.

A bloke that runs another forum recently told me I was a "sensitive guy". Perhaps I am. I don't see it that way but I suppose it is right for others to judge.

This discussion, that started when Tony posted the question heading this topic, didn't begin life here. At least not for me. It started on a couple of other forums I used to post at.

It was clear from the beginning, after reading Tony's initial post, that it was believed Coleman only began manufacturing in Australia from about 1950. I accepted that as I didn't have a clue, prior to reading the information provided and believed what what was written.

So, I set out to help Tony on his quest, to simply find out whom made Coleman in Australia.

The problem was, I kept running into little things here and there that began me to think 1950 may not have been the starting point. I didn't set out to disprove the 1950 starting point but I couldn't ignore certain things I was finding.

I posted things that I thought would be of great interest, most of it was met with mockery. I was berated publicly. Hence I lost interest. Being new to lamp collecting, has and is my downfall. It seems I can't be taken seriously. After all, what would I (he) know. I kind of understand that, I guess.

That feeling of 'what would he know' was exacerbated when I contacted a prominent member of another forum. I offered information about one of his favourite subjects, Austramax. I was met with a short and stern, "We know everything about Austramax"

Looking at was was written on the forum and looking at what I had in front of me, I disagreed. Rather than rebuffing the member, I resolved to keep what I have to myself and  let the Austramax experts run their own life and beliefs.

I side-stepped this topic, not really caring one way or the other about it until I found further information that I thought was sure to be taken seriously. It wasn't and hasn't been so what is the point of flogging a dead horse.

Besides, the question is Whom Manufactured lamps... not when were they manufactured.

I've actually withheld information as I've not wanted to de-rail the initial point of the topic. The problem is, the facts led me to believe that Coleman were manufacturing in Australia well before 1950, and knowing that, I felt that would be of help to find whom has indeed been manufacturing Coleman.... I can't say any other person has seen it from my point of view.

I recently asked for information again, in this topic, and was berated. The point was missed that the more information I have the more I can research. To be honest, I think the question has been answered as best as it can ever be to 99% but again being honest, not to me.

I will contact you privately and see if you will be kind enough to help me locate a few snippets of information that I may or may not be able to use, for my own personal quest about Coleman that differs from the OP's question.

So whether I'm a 'sensitive guy' or not, I'm not wasting any more of my time and effort to earn more public humiliation.

This post itself is humiliating enough but like I said, you deserved a response.








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Matty
Guff wrote:
I've got to get back to fixing my lanterns.


That makes two of us sport.
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Tony Press
Thanks, Winston. You have provided some interesting info/insights there.

One of the things that has been said to me is that the Coleman archive in the US has very little info on the Australian connection (this info from previous endeavours into finding out about Australian Coleman production). 

So any more light shed from the US direction would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Tony
Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
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Tony Press
Matty

As your last (above) comments relate to a topic I started here, and at CCS and CPL, I hope you will bear with me while I take time to respond to some of the points you have made. It will take me some time and consideration, so my response won't be posted until later today or tomorrow.

Tony
Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
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Tony Press
Matty (and others participating in this subject)

1. My intention here is to get this subject back on track.

2. Matty, your contribution to this subject has been rich and varied - I, for one, do not want you to stop participating in it.

I will respond to some aspects of Matty's previous post as far as they relate to the Topic subject.

3. Matty said:

"Besides, the question is Whom Manufactured lamps... not when were they manufactured."

The Topic subject here, and at CSS and CPL was "Who Made Coleman Stoves and Lamps In Australia". In the opening paragraph of the topic I wrote:

"
What do we know about who manufactured Coleman lamps and stoves in Australia? And when?" 

My thoughts were that both "who" and "when" were intrinsically related. I still think so - so any information about time is relevant.

4. Matty said:

"I've actually withheld information as I've not wanted to de-rail the initial point of the topic. The problem is, the facts led me to believe that Coleman were manufacturing in Australia well before 1950, and knowing that, I felt that would be of help to find whom has indeed been manufacturing Coleman.... I can't say any other person has seen it from my point of view."  

As pointed out in 4. above both "who" and "when" are part of the same subject. Information on manufacturing dates is relevant to the topic.


5. In
an earlier post on this thread, Matty said:

"This is the third time I've posted this because I think it is crucial.

C, J. Thomas, of the Coleman QuickLite Coy. (Australia), said his company was purley Australian, but found it was necessary to import several lines from America. Apart from me, no one else seems to think that means anything significant. It is what has kept me in this argument. If that isn't saying we do manufacture in this country but not all our products, I'm not sitting here typing."

If I recall correctly the quote in bold is a report of evidence given at the 1930 Australian Tariff Inquiry. I take it at face value. By 1935 at least, Coleman Quicklite (Australia) was also importing Coleman lamps from Canada. So, what still isn't clear is whether any or what "lines" were being made/manufactured/assembled in Australia before or during the 1930s.

A Coleman ad from 11 Sept 1943, also supplied by Matty, says:


"COLEMAN

Coleman factories In U.S.A., Canada, and England now employ hundreds of men and women making millions of Aircraft and Munition parts.
This explains our lack of supplies every now and again,
BUT
We always carry large supplies of Genuine
COLEMAN MANTLES
Also Washers, Irons, Pumps, Burner Tubes, Burner Caps, Valves, Pyrex Globes, Mica Chimneys, Needles, Gas Tips, etc.
Always remember we record your name when we cannot supply, and in due time your required part is sent to you."

6. The Coleman Iron pictured above, seems a likely candidate for Australian manufacture of some parts or all of it - the stamped base, the different threaded bolts and the speckled enamel.  I have no clear idea of the time frame in which they appear in Australia, but Matty's ad of 1934 (above) shows that  it could have been manufactured, partly manufactured, or assembled in Australia that early. There are definitely Canadian Coleman irons here is Australia after 1936, but I don't think they were speckled.


If anyone wants to go back to my "Draft 1" posted above on 11/10/15 it is clear that I was not closing my mind to any evidence relating to Coleman in Australia, nor trying to shut anyone down. Other information on this topic can be found at CCS and CPL:

http://classiccampstoves.com/threads/who-manufactured-coleman-lamps-and-stoves-in-australia.30954/

http://www.classicpressurelamps.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/11681/post/60103/hl//fromsearch/1/


I now have a rather large table of information that comes from various posting in the three forums and from other information sent directly to me. I'll do a Draft 2 sometime after Easter when I'm back from rural NSW (on the hunt for lamps and stoves.... ).

Cheers

Tony




Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
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warren
Thanks to all that are supplying information.  I find this interesting and I know how hard it is to track down 80-90 year old information.

Keep at it!

Thanks

ANTIQUESWV on Ebay
#1 in the 223B club
Gatlinburg, TN

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Matty
Tony,

We cleared the air by private conversation. I think your above post was gracious thank you.

As I told you, I was caught between the devil and the deep blue sea with this topic. I merely began to research the topic to help you find your answers. not for any other reason.

I think in your original OP it was 1955 that you had pegged as the starting date until we nutted out the "Coleman not to build a factory in South Australia" was misleading. Misleading in the sense that whilst Coleman wasn't going to build a factory,in South Australia, they had for the previous 5 years used Colton in South Australia to manufacture their products.

It was only when researching for your topic that it became clear to me that the original 1955 date then the amended 1950 date was in danger of being incorrect.

Perhaps I should have started my own topic with my own subject matter but you have cleared that up by stating you think the dates are important.

There are some points  that you raised that need addressing

Tony Press wrote:

5. In
an earlier post on this thread, Matty said:

"This is the third time I've posted this because I think it is crucial.

C, J. Thomas, of the Coleman QuickLite Coy. (Australia), said his company was purley Australian, but found it was necessary to import several lines from America. Apart from me, no one else seems to think that means anything significant. It is what has kept me in this argument. If that isn't saying we do manufacture in this country but not all our products, I'm not sitting here typing."

If I recall correctly the quote in bold is a report of evidence given at the 1930 Australian Tariff Inquiry. I take it at face value. By 1935 at least, Coleman Quicklite (Australia) was also importing Coleman lamps from Canada. So, what still isn't clear is whether any or what "lines" were being made/manufactured/assembled in Australia before or during the 1930s.

Firstly, you recall correctly. It was 1930 that Thomas made the statement.

Secondly, what we all need to remember is where this statement by Thomas was made. This wasn't a flippant line for the local press. This wasn't stated over a few beers in a bar and someone overheard it and reported it.

It was stated at a government enquiry, essentially in court in front of a judge. That judge was going to rule on the evidence provided to him. There is no way, that Thomas was making a flippant remark nor lying. So that face value you speak of has added importance considering the environment the statement was made.

On that face value, I will steadfastly stand by my belief that Thomas was saying "we do manufacture in Australia but not all lines and we continue to import several lines.

Having spoken about the setting and the need not to lie in front of a judge, I have to address this point. Thomas at the end of his "import several lines" added "from America" That wasn't lying, that was IMO a slip of the tongue that I will now address in something else you said.

Tony Press wrote:
. By 1935 at least, Coleman Quicklite (Australia) was also importing Coleman lamps from Canada.

It is important to clear this up. I understand why you said such a thing as you took what Thomas said to the judge on face value.

I know that Thomas spent 8 years in America with Coleman prior to his return to Australia to take over the reigns of Coleman Quick-Lite Co of Australia. I know whom he took over from but that mans name escapes me right now.

So, when Thomas said to the judge "from America" that was a slip of the tongue probably borne out by the fact that he had recently arrived back in Australia after 8 years in America.

Once Coleman Canada commenced operations Coleman USA handed all export responsibilities to Coleman Canada. Thanks to the person that supplied me the paperwork for that a few days ago,

Before seeing that paperwork it was quite clear anyway (import manifests) that from 1921 the only Coleman products that entered this country was via Canada. It is important that we don't believe products came from both America and Canada as they simply didn't.

I know until I posted the 1917 Coleman ad, it wasn't completely sure (to some) if Coleman was importing into Australia prior to Coleman Canada commencement.We now know for sure they were but that most certainly ceased Once Canada commenced.

Tony Press wrote:

A Coleman ad from 11 Sept 1943, also supplied by Matty, says:

"COLEMAN

Coleman factories In U.S.A., Canada, and England now employ hundreds of men and women making millions of Aircraft and Munition parts.
This explains our lack of supplies every now and again,
BUT
We always carry large supplies of Genuine
COLEMAN MANTLES
Also Washers, Irons, Pumps, Burner Tubes, Burner Caps, Valves, Pyrex Globes, Mica Chimneys, Needles, Gas Tips, etc.
Always remember we record your name when we cannot supply, and in due time your required part is sent to you."


I know this post of mine is getting long and boring so I will finish with this.

As you say, I posted this ad but until I saw it posted by you and read it, the significance of what the story the ad MAY be telling wasn't quite clear.

Whilst they didn't specifically mention Australia, I think that was your point, that an Australian factory wasn't mentioned, that doesn't bother me. There are so many connotations that ad invokes I'm not even sure where to start.

Ok, I'll start with the non mention of the Australian factory. I don't believe that Coleman set up a dedicated Coleman factory until 1955 at Cato St Melbourne. Prior to that they were using 3rd party manufacturers, one we know of is Colton...

So it makes sense to me that a specific Coleman factory in Australia wasn't mentioned, I don't see that as a setback at all.

"We always carry large supplies of Genuine
COLEMAN MANTLES
Also Washers, Irons, Pumps, Burner Tubes, Burner Caps, Valves, Pyrex Globes, Mica Chimneys, Needles, Gas Tips, etc."

The ad states the above. I wonder if that is a clue to what products Coleman were actually manufacturing in Australia in 1943. Perhaps, that is all they were and ever were manufacturing in Australia, prior to 1950.  Regardless if that was all, it still is manufacturing.

A further point needs to be added. I don't think we should entirely believe that if what I said above is correct for 1943, it may not have been for the years prior to and after the war.

Coleman may well have had factories that were manufacturing their founts etc, in Australia taken from them. As we know any factory with manufacturing capabilities could be, were most likely to be and were drafted for the war effort.

I feel it is more than likely that Coleman lost their capabilities to produce lamps in Australia as they did elsewhere worldwide.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it clears up a few things and I also hope something I mentioned may invoke further discussion.
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Guff
Here is a photo I took at the Historical Village yesterday of an Australian Peerman pumpless iron PI/46 which was supposedly made in Melbourne circa 1948. They have a speckled green and white porcelain on them similar to the speckled blue and white on the Australian made Coleman 4A iron. Tony mentioned this iron above.
There is a sticker on the iron and under Peerman it has C.J. Thomas and Son Pty. Ltd. Would that be the same C.J. Thomas from the Coleman QuickLite Co.? Was this  company making these irons or selling them only, prior to 1950? Were they making Coleman irons at the same time. More food for thought.

Keith. Click image for larger version - Name: P2260209.JPG, Views: 156, Size: 131.39 KB
Quote
Tony Press
Keith

I'll dig out the Peerman stuff in the Coleman-Thomas catalogue.

Cheers

Tony
Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
Quote
Matty
Guff wrote:

There is a sticker on the iron and under Peerman it has C.J. Thomas and Son Pty. Ltd. Would that be the same C.J. Thomas from the Coleman QuickLite Co.? Was this  company making these irons or selling them only, prior to 1950? Were they making Coleman irons at the same time. More food for thought.


Keith,

Yes it is the same C.J.Thomas company.

I have had the same thought about researching the Peerman iron to see if it was possible the Coleman iron was made in the same factory. I just haven't ever actually done it.

Apart from that research, I don't think there is any more I can add to this topic that is of any consequence to the OP question. I do have information but it isn't helpful in regards to the OP question.

Unless anyone else comes forward with information that gives leads to further research I've hit the proverbial brick wall.
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Matty
I just found an interesting ad not published by Coleman Quicklite Co or C J Thomas.

It was interesting as it is a comprehensive ad that also lists model #'s which most don't.

Stoves listed and depicted were the 303 and 404.
The 4a iron was listed and depicted.
Lanterns listed and depicted were 236, 237, 242B and 249.

The only non Coleman product listed was the Peerman iron.

The C J Thomas company weren't just the proprietors of Coleman Quick-Lite Aust. They had their fingers in many pies. I assumed them advertising the Peerman iron was just one of those fingers in the pie and had nothing to do at all with Coleman.

Seeing that comprehensive Coleman ad with the Peerman iron has altered my thinking.

Things that ran through my head include:

"I wonder if Coleman bought the Peerman factory?"

"I wonder if Peerman were manufacturing Coleman products then decided to make their own product as well? That would be similar to Hipolito manufacturing Petromax lamps then after awhile they designed their own lamp, the Hipolito, to sell in their own right."

"Does it mean nothing at all?" [smile]
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Scouterjan
look at those valve wheels, so similar to Coleman, interesting
jan


Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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Matty
Here is the text of an ad I just found from 1948. The bottom line is of main interest.

Also, does this mean the Sad Iron was brought back and re-named the Peerman? Perhaps by Coleman themselves? I haven't a clue about irons.

PEERMAN FLAT IRONS:We have recently landed further stocks of the Peerman Flat or Sad Iron.
These have not been available for many years, and stocks are limited.
Shape and weight like an electric iron,with coloured Bakelite handle, 15/6
each and marketed by the Coleman QuickLite Co.
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Scouterjan
very interesting
Jan


Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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Tony Press
Coleman and Peerman gasoline irons, from Colin's Coleman-Thomas catalogue (probably early 1950s) that was kindly sent to me by Warren [the entire catalogue is a huge file size....]:

IMG_8122.jpg 

IMG_8123.jpg 


The pics are not that great, but the Peerman has the CJ Thomas logo under the Peerman stamp.

The other non-Coleman kerosene or gasoline products in the catalogue are:

BDH "Wondercook" stoves;  BDH "Ultraheat" heaters, hot water systems and wash coppers; and Wallis kerosene refrigerators.

There are also other products (not kerosene or gasoline) in the catalogue: Hills Hoists; Wilson drum pumps; Wallis eskys; and Westgate electrical hot water services.

Cheers

Tony


Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
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Matty
Thanks Tony.

The Peerman iron, to me, adds clues to the Coleman history in Australia.

Having said that, further research tells me the Peerman iron was in no way connected to Coleman. It was a strictly Thomas & Son marketed product.
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