200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

Northman49
I recently got a nice German double burner alcohol stove. I had a gallon of ethanol and used it with excellent results but I am running low. I called the manufacturer and was told it is no longer produced as it is now banned by government order (Canada). I searched for replacements and cannot find anything remotely affordable in large packaging (1 gal).  I tried Methyl Hydrate as a substitute but it burns for a few minutes and then extinguishes itself.
  Do I now have a shelf queen?
IMG_3943__1592161392_53625.jpg 
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
Hot Diggity

How about denatured alcohol?  I had to look this up...

Denatured alcohol
is ethanol (ethyl alcohol) made unfit for human consumption by adding one or more chemicals (denaturants) to it. Denaturing refers to removing a property from the alcohol (being able to drink it), not to chemically altering or decomposing it, so denatured alcohol contains ordinary ethyl alcohol.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #12
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #510
Coleman Slant Saver #510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker, Wickie, Lamp loon


Quote
JimL
I think you mean methanol.  Ethanol is the drinking kind.

Search for ‘stove fuel’.  I believe methanol was banned in California, but as I recall, if sold as stove fuel, it’s ok.  I’m guessing it may be the same law(s) where you are.  If no luck, hit some estate sales.  That’s where I get mine now, and really cheap because they don’t want to deal with the cans of ‘toxic waste’ sitting in the garage or shed.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
Quote
Pancholoco1911
Jim I use Heet from the yellow bottle because denatured alcohol was banned in CA.
~Pancho~
Looking for B-Day lantern 9/83, 7/85
Quote
Northman49
It is Ethanol/ denatured Alcohol. What is the reasoning for it's being banned? Makes no sense to me. IMG_3950__1592601814_42268.jpg 
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
Hot Diggity
It's probably used to produce some drug or another.  Maybe big paint stores will know a work around to get you some.  It's a solvent, and I use it daily in the paint and body business as a de-greaser for appliques.  Some of the stuff that they ban ends up forcing folks to use even more toxic stuff as an alternative.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #12
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #510
Coleman Slant Saver #510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker, Wickie, Lamp loon


Quote
JimL
That Biofuel has been denatured, essentially making drinking alcohol undrinkable.  I believe the denaturing includes adding methanol or simply has some other poison added. 

@Pancholoco1911   Heet will work, but for cooking is likely not practical due to price.  Great for preheating cups though.  I suggest you call and ask your Lowes or Home Depot if they have 'alcohol stove fuel'.  As I understand it, sold that way is legal, but not if it doesn't specifically state stove fuel on the label. 

Yeah, California banned it, but no surprise after seeing a list of products scheduled to be evaluated this year for removal from the market, including hair shampoo.  Now I understand why virtually all products contain the label including the words that it's known by the state of California...  It's just not worth the risk of missing something and getting in trouble with the state.  Plus, eventually all manufactured products will have the potential to have one of its components on the list, so why not add the label now, just in case.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
Quote
SteveRetherford
i hear california banned it too
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
Quote
macwacs
They want to ban cow farts in California.
RMW
Quote
Northman49
Ok, I can live with the ban. But any ideas why Methyl Hydrate does not work as an alternative.

ag795.jpg 
Here is a fast google info blurb
"Known internationally as methanol, meths, or wood alcohol, methyl hydrate is widely available at paint and hardware stores in Canada. This fuel alcohol is cheap: about $2.50/L at the release of this vlog, vs about twice that for naptha or white gas, offers high power density, and burns cleanly with no soot."
I tried it in my cheap little Chinese alcohol stove and no problems.
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
Pancholoco1911
macwacs wrote:
They want to ban cow farts in California.
RMW
I believe there is already a fee on that $250 per head annually. Not 100% sure but that's what I've been hearing lately
~Pancho~
Looking for B-Day lantern 9/83, 7/85
Quote
Gasman64
Ed, that's a really nice stove.  I sure hope you can get suitable fuel for it.
Steve
ICCC #1012

logoballistol logo 1a.png

Quote
Deanofid
The picture of the one called "BIo-Flame" is ethanol that has been denatured.  It is then called denatured alcohol.  Ethanol is the stuff you want for alcohol stoves, but the only way you can usually get it is as denatured alcohol.  Otherwise you will have to buy liquor.
I've used methanol too, but it has never worked as well as ethanol/denatured alcohol in things like marine stoves or simple alcohol burning stoves.  Methanol is usually not what you want for a stove.

Also, a paint store should have it, since it is used as shellac thinner, as well as cooking fuel.
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--http://www.deansmachine.com  ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
Quote
Rustytank
Pure grain alcohol from the liquor store should run in it but might be pricey.
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
CaptainFantastic
I believe there is already a fee on that $250 per head annually. Not 100% sure but that's what I've been hearing lately

Don't joke. When you guys can travel again, just be aware of breaking wind in Austrian public places... true story from this past week!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53072756
Ian - Looking for these dates 7/82, 7/92, 8/93, 9/03, 11/05, 5/17
ICCC #1480 | ICCC co-webmaster

Quote
Gunhippie
When we used an alcohol stove on the boat, we burned "wood alcohol": methanol. Worked fine. Don't drink it.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
Quote
Northman49
I am wondering if my problem is with the amount of fuel I put in the tank. For testing I put just a minimun of fuel. Maybe filling the tanks to at least half full could give some weight to the fuel (gravity) and feed the burners better.  Any thoughts?
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
Legs
I get methanol from our local marine supply store. Sold for marine stove fuel.

Let it burn....        
Don... Oregon
USA 236 Syndicate #003  Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0126  The Coleman Blue's 243's #097
Coleman Slant Saver 007  ICC #1438   NRA #147137741
Quote
outlawmws
I'd agree;  you want it at least half full.
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


Quote
Tigerfans2
I believe there is already a fee on that $250 per head annually. Not 100% sure but that's what I've been hearing lately


Not to be argumentative but isn't the tax on the other end?
Coleman Slant Saver #58
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #8
Coleman Blues 243's #16
Quote
Tigerfans2
You know...if we can spirit the Coleman Dr. and a few others out of claliforny we can let them go ahead and secede..
Just an idea
Coleman Slant Saver #58
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #8
Coleman Blues 243's #16
Quote
Pancholoco1911

Tigerfans2 wrote:


Not to be argumentative but isn't the tax on the other end?


could be. 

 

~Pancho~
Looking for B-Day lantern 9/83, 7/85
Quote
sailman
Make your own fuel ! ?
Greg,  KN4JZZ wtb 6/11 grandson
Quote
Dmacp
Methanol is available in California under a brand name. (Heet)
Denatured alcohol has been banned. Isopropyl alcohol is unavailable. Naphtha is banned except camp fuel. California regulatory compliance is enough to cause a drinking problem if you could get the alcohol.
And-now you can! Hand sanitizer contains ethyl alcohol. It (most of it) is, as far as I know, non-poisonous. How do I know this?
The local kids found out. Not dummies are they? I had just assumed it was isopropyl.
Unfortunately hand sanitizer is probably worthless in a marine stove.

https://sciencenotes.org/can-you-drink-hand-sanitizer/
Dan
ICCC member #604
Quote
SteveRetherford
BEWARE BEWARE WARNING WARNING i clicked on Dans link above and got all kinds of virus warning , froze my computer all up , wanted me to call microsoft ect .................... do so at your own risk ...... im doing a scan of my puter right now .
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
Quote
Northman49
Lots of posts but WHY is it banned?  Tax purposes? Health danger?  Physical hazards?....Alcohol has been around a long time and it's not going away anytime soon. Lots of alcohol fireplaces sold in the past...not practical using 8 oz bottles.
   Puzzled and Perplexed.
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
JimL
Hand sanitizer should not contain methanol in any concentration whatsoever!  That's nasty stuff and will get absorbed the skin, at least from what I read recently.  Three people died from drinking hand sanitizer in New Mexico, three are in critical condition, and one is permanently blind.  The sanitizer they were drinking contained methanol.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1470430/hand-sanitizer-suspected-in-three-deaths.html

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
Quote
Phredd
There is no common formula for denatured alcohol. Different companies add lots of different solvents to make it 'undrinkable' (read - poison).

Commercially avalable denatured alcohol may contain any to the following:

Ethanol
Isopropyl alcohol
Methanol
Methyl isobutyl ketone
Water - YES it's true one brand has 1-5% water
Acetic acid
Heptane

There are some brands that only have ethanol and methanol.  I have a list somewhere - i'll dig it out and add to this thread.

Kevin

Phredd
ICCC#1799
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #40
Quote
shaune509
Northman, Cali has a top heavy bureaucratic work force who are uneducated in the fields they run and over see.This leads to but- kissing the politic seat warmers who are dumber then them so as to keep there over paid jobs. Why is a lead cancer warning required on a brass drift punch, who eats a tool? If any thing has been found to be a remote cause of cancer or death, Cali wants to control or ban to save 'just 1 life'. Well life it self can and does cause death so we are all SOL. Common sense and personal responsibility have also lead to the 'Big Government is here to protect syndrome that we are seeing with the China flu.
Rant over.
All above is IMHO, sorry if I offended any one.
Shaune509
Quote
Northman49
Not a rant..just the truth. But I understand the bans, I am still looking for a REASON to ban this...surely there is some explanation as to why the gov't toadies find this  (mostly) natural liquid to be unhealthy for the citizens who are allowed guns, drugs, fast cars and unlimited gallons of gasoline.
     Confused and frustrated
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
Quote
Tigerfans2
Maybe there's fear at the highest level that this product could contribute to Canada tipping over like Guam is going to?
Coleman Slant Saver #58
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #8
Coleman Blues 243's #16
Quote
Flyboyfwa
As George Carlin would say,  "oxygen causes cancer, but only when breathed in small amounts over a long period of time"
Andy
Mil-Spec Ops #199
Coleman Slant Saver #54
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #06
275 Appreciation Syndicate #1970
The Coleman Blues 243's #159

ICCC #1741
Quote
Phredd
Here is the list of sources of denatured alcohol.  I listed some common sources (Homedepot, Westmarine), and some industrial source as a way to illustrate that not all denatured alcohol is the same.  As you can see it varies a lot in a number of ways. 

1) There are number of additives that make ethanol 'denatured'.   Most often in is methanol and MIBK (methy isobutyl ketone). But is can contain other things including water.

2) The percentage of ethanol can vary a lot between sources. And the range is percentage range is also wide even within on product. I think this likely due to the use of whatever is cheapest when they make a batch.  A due to the high demand these for pure ethanol for use in sanitizers, i would bet most products are now on the low end of these ranges.

3) I found very little difference between products label as "fuel use' versus those not labeled as such (e.g., shellac thinner).

My overall opinion: I use it mostly for cleaning purposes and not for burning. Thus I try by products with the lowest percentage of methanol, which is easily absorbed via skin contact. I do this because I want to reserve my liver for metabolism of ethanol-based beverages!




 KleanStrip FuelKleanStrip Fuel #2KleanStiip SunnySide FuelCrownLynsol (Saogran Co)QuestVapcoLabChemFisher ScientificSinclairColumbus Chem
Chemical HomeDepotHome Depotfrom Company WebsiteGrainger, TrueValue, WestMarineMultiple placesVarius Marine Supply CompaniesIndustrial SourceLab SourceLab SourceIndustrialIndustrial
Ethyl alchohol30-6045-503-504365-8567-8660-10088-9292-93>90>80
Methanol30-605-5540-605320-303-403-64 <5
Isopropol alchohol 0  0.5-3 3-74-70 <10
Methyl isobutyl ketone*0.1-17 .90.1-11  1-2 <5
Ethyl acetate     1  1  
Toluene        0.07  
Natural gasoline         1-5 
Benzene         0 - 0.25% 
Water     7    balance
Hydrocarbon solvent     <1     
            
*contain hexone, isopropyl acetone, methyl isobutyl ketone( MIBK), 1-methyl-2-pentone           

Phredd
ICCC#1799
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #40
Quote
Dmacp
Quote:
BEWARE BEWARE WARNING WARNING i clicked on Dans link above and got all kinds of virus warning , froze my computer all up , wanted me to call microsoft ect .................... do so at your own risk ...... im doing a scan of my puter right now .

gee, sorry Steve. It works fine on my end.
The hand sanitizer I see on shelves has ethanol in it. I'm in California.
Mouthwash also has ethanol in it.
IMHO the various reasons for denaturing alcohol (liquor tax) do not outweigh the risks (dead teenagers).  Other countries like Mexico sell ethyl alcohol right along side isopropyl in drug stores. Plainly labeled. Making hand sanitizer poisonous is a bad idea-even a stupid idea. 
Dan
ICCC member #604
Quote


...
...
Welcome to the Coleman Collectors Forum, an international forum of Coleman enthusiast and collectors, as such people from all over the world come here to read about Coleman collecting, repair, and to meet and make friends. The pages contained here are intended for the use of amateur collectors and people interested in Coleman collecting, restoration and repair as a hobby. It goes without saying to refrain from political posts, personal attacks and inflammatory posts.

Please note, all postings are the personal opinions of the members posting, the owner, administrators and moderators of the forum do not warrant the accuracy of posted information or endorse the safety of such.