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stoves1234
I saw in an ad recently that a local Boy Scout troop is selling a few suitcase stoves, some single burners, and a couple of lanterns. The ad said that they're switching to propane. I know we have some forum members involved in scouting, is this a national policy, or an individual troop decision?
Jim Brizzolara
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Kansas John
Individual thing as far as I know.
John M. Lawrence, KS
ICCC #1431

Looking for a 214 kero and REI single burner anniversary stove as well as any Coleman born on date 10/77, 1/80
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BSAGuy
Troop policy.
- Courtenay
Be Prepared
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zoomkat
Maybe some enthusiast should push for a gas appliance merit badge. I just got a 285A and it appears to be a simple lantern to work on. With the exception of initially breaking lose the valve assembly from the tank, it seems to be simple enough to worked on by intermediate age scouts. Also not sure the use of disposable propane canisters is eco friendly. 
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Mike
zoomkat wrote:
... Also not sure the use of disposable propane canisters is eco friendly. 


Excellent point and absolutely correct--especially for the campgrounds left to deal with the empties.

The Ontario Provincial Parks System has to pay to have these removed as they are hazardous waste and left by the thousands in parks. Many are almost full as the handwringers that use them for a hour or two, are then too afraid that they'll leak and blow up their car on the way home! Iditos.

Mike.
My best gal is a Coleman outing pal!
2 1/2 minutes to Midnight...
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Norm
My troop went to propane years ago.  Stoves and lanterns with propane are much safer for younger scouts without an adult standing over them.  Older scouts use white gas for high adventures and when younger scouts use gas an adult is right there.
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Coast to Coast
I was a Scout in the eighties, and our troop was propane only. I always assumed it was a national policy. We were pretty old school and still used Baker tents.
-Bird- Milwaukee, WI.

“I don’t want another lantern, I only want that last one again”

ICCC#1776 

The Coleman Blue‘s 243’s #143
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Ciancio
That was something that caught me off guard when I moved to Oklahoma in high school. In Colorado my troop and all the ones we worked with used GPA lanterns and stoves. In Oklahoma we found all of the troops here used propane. We always packed out any empty canisters but I have seen plenty of people leave them behind.

One campout I will never forget is the first time we took the new troop backpacking. We brought GPA backpacking stoves and it was the first time any of the local boys had ever even seen one, this caused a dangerous situation. One boy tried lighting a stove with a remote fuel bottle (I think it was a MSR or a peak1 but not sure) he didn't pay attention to the directions, just fully opened the valve and struck a match. Needless to say the stove burst into flames, in a panic he grabbed the fuel bottle and ran. So now we have a boy running around with a fireball hanging below a pressurized fuel tank. My father got to him before I did and used a stick to lift the stove above the tank while calming him down and getting him to set down the bottle. made for and exciting breakfast.
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NWMike
One of the problems with old technology is that it becomes unusual, quaint, out of the mainstream.  The line of passing on sound knowledge about how the thing operates breaks down.  Nobody knows what they haven't learned, even if their Grandparents were experts at it.
More than forty years ago I didn't like pressurized fuel canisters, propane/butane, etc. for just that reason of finding them discarded in the backwoods.  Packed a lot of them out, because that's what my Scout leaders taught me years earlier. Even if it was someone else's trace.
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Rfieldbuilds
It would be particular to the Scouting unit (Troop).

Ours uses LP though one older committee member and myself would like to switch back to GPA. Some of our boys us GPA for backpacking.
Randy
QL #15
Slant Saver #59
#0269 Turd Hurdler, and a few others too.
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Chucker
Individual.

We have both profane and GPA stuff. I take a single burner Coleman stove as well to heat water for coffee, hot cocoa, or wash water. 

The propane is great for heating double griddles with 20lb. tanks (we have two) plus a turkey fryer burner for the boys dish water but the lighting of a pavilion or large area is done with 3-4 Coleman liquid fuel lanterns. 


Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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bowenstudios
My troop in the 90s only had propane, but individuals could use any GPA's as long as they showed they could safely operate it. My son is now is scouts and his troop has similar rules. They also like to use homemade stuff like rocket stoves made out of food cans and alcohol stoves from soda cans. The boys are not allowed to use any type of stove alone util they reach first class. Seems one of the leaders sons almost blew himself up when he thought the alcohol ran out, because he couldn't see the flame, and tried to pour more in.

Mike
-Mike
______________________________________

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #651
Mil-SpecOps #0651
The Coleman Blue's 243's #154
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Willy
I made it a point that my scouts know how to use both options.  They were using all propane stuff until I joined the troop  I did a whole meeting on the advantages and disadvantages of each option, including the adapter to use propane on a liquid fuel stove.  I like to bring some of my various lanterns to our regular weekly meetings in the spring and fall that go into the dark hours. Two of my lanterns were owned originally by scoutmasters back in the 60s, so I like to think they would appreciate their old lanterns are still being used for scouting.  A few of the older scouts now have their own liquid fueled stoves, thanks to their wonderful (ahem) assistant scoutmaster.
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Rfieldbuilds
Good job Willy! Thats how it started was by getting my son on GPA, then his best friend and another ASM. More and more have shied away from propane so I feel like we are winning. Lol.
Randy
QL #15
Slant Saver #59
#0269 Turd Hurdler, and a few others too.
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sunshineofthenight
If scouts want to be green ..then propane is not the way.
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TwoCanoes

The sister question to Boy Scout policy is, what’s the policy in Girl Scouts?  I don’t know about national policy, but in my Council, it was up to the troop, and in my troop, it was up to the individual girl.  The photo shows representatives of what was available if the girl didn’t have her own stove, which most of them didn’t.  They were encouraged to cook over a fire using the large grate on the left for canoe trips or the smaller grates for backpacking.  We had a couple of excellent cooks – their first choice for canoeing was Dutch ovens (we had a stack of 3) heated with wood.  The small, folding wood stove was pretty much never chosen – the grate was so much better!  The Coleman and Primus canister propane stoves were popular on canoe trips for their adjustibility (but I discouraged their use due to the waste issue with the canisters).  The Peak1 Feather 400s were well-used for both canoeing and backpacking, so we had two (always my first choice!).  We used a couple of pocket rockets for backpacking, but I discouraged their use except on longer hikes where weight was critical.  The two-burner propane was always available on canoe trips for anyone that wanted to use it, but always with the refillable tank.  The Svea and Primus/Edelweiss cookset are in the photo because they were the stoves of choice when I was in Boy Scouts back in the 60s.
Scout stoves examples.jpg 

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Mike DeHart
My brother is a Scoutmaster in Maine. I asked him this question a few weeks ago, since the troop we grew up in never used GPA's.  It is up to the troop, but there are particular rules regarding storage of the liquid fuel in camp.  You can't just set it behind a tree.  Propane often wins just for being more fool resistant.  He does a winter campout with his troop.  They dig snow caves, so hardcore winter survival stuff.  His troop uses propane.  He has been pushing GPA's for a few years, but nobody wanted to play his game.  He took a 425 stove this year and taught them.  While the propane stoves had their weenie little bic lighter flames, the Coleman 425 was the blast funace that got the coffee and breakfast on the table.  The troop are now converts, and he is teaching use and care of old style GPA's.
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SweetD
Anecdotally, my colleague up in Rochester, NY says his troop has gone to all propane.  I asked him last year if he would like a few later-model 220s from me, ready to go, for his troop.  He said thanks, but no.

Dave

Here Comes Sunshine
My name is Dave, and I'm in Rhode Island.
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate member #0207
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zoomkat
Might be interesting to ask/see how many propane appliances bite the dust due to cross threading the propane bottles when attaching to the appliance.
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TwoCanoes
The kids in my troop could handle threading the propane bottles to the appliances into which the bottles were directly threaded.  Never saw any of the girls strip those threads.  But I'll admit that on Scout trips, I was the only one to thread the hose or pipe into the appliance on the stove end.  Just too easy to strip those brass fittings.  On family trips, however, my daughters did that part of the setup, too, without ever stripping threads.
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Gunhippie
Because propane is just soooo much safer: https://www.google.com/search?q=propane+explodes+in+car&tbm=isch&source=univ&client=firefox-b-1-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJkp6TrpzhAhV8HDQIHbIxAtsQsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1600&bih=899
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Gunhippie
Anything involving fuel, heat, and flames is dangerous. We need to teach the younguns how to use all these safely. Lithium batteries have been known to have problems, too. See Boeing 787--and all the exploding vaper videos.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Bill
There is no national policy prohibiting liquid fuels. I don’t know where this troop is located, but they may have difficulty using propane stoves in really cold temperatures. Propane can be environmentally responsible if you’re using 20-pound tanks, but how often do you see people running lanterns that way? Stoves, yes, but rarely lanterns.
Bill Sheehy, aka Merlotrin P.M.      ICCC #1390      eBay handle: wtspe
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #24  /  Mil-Spec Ops, Bernz-o-Matic, and Sears Syndicates #58
Looking for birthday lanterns dated 4/33, 9/33 & 7/86

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JohnnyMac
I donated a 425, two FFR'd 220's, and two 400a's to my friend's Scout troop, specifically for use in winter. They had a bad experience, a couple of years ago, when attempting to use canister stoves in 10°F weather. Even though the Scouts had kept the canisters warm in their sleeping bags overnight, as soon as they started using the stoves, the canisters cooled down again, and stopped functioning.

I just sold my old MSR Whisperlite to a young river guide who was done trying to use canister stoves, because of poor performance, and high cost of fuel canisters. His "day job" is as a quality assurance chemist, and he has access to generic white gas, by the barrel full. 😉
Accidental Member of the 237-B Club
"When all else fails, turn it into a Frankie!"
Lancaster Lanterns 400 CP "Toasted Retinas" Club 
"Why would someone make a 1000 CP lantern?  Because they CAN!"

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curtludwig
If you go back in time this subject comes up on the regular...
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Jayhawksr
I bought some lanterns off a district scout executive because people keep donating GPA to the troop he works with.  The troop puts the money back into buying new equipment and expenses.  I passed on the newer stoves he had but I got a turd and 220F out of the deal.
Richard (KC native and KU Alumni living in Maryland)
Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. Go KU!
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1983.  Coleman Quick-lite Crew #36.
Mil Spec Syndicate #1983
Eagle Scout Class of '83
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ThosKiwi
Hello
The Scout Troop I help out with is trained in GPA and propane.

They are familiar with the limitations and hazards of both systems.

They know, at winter camps, when the temperature drops to -25 Celsius and lower, propane is ineffective.

We train them as best we can, most times they listen and take notice.

They find LEDs don't put out any heat, but are perfect in tents. NO Carbon Monoxide.

What more can you ask?

Cheers
ThomasL:-Currently on the lookout for a Canadian(Read Toronto): L227or228 - Big Hat and 249
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Doug L
Soon the scouts will be using those battery lanterns.

This stove tin is circa 1912
those are real scouts
looking for a Hugo Moller Comet  Stove 5 or 6

 

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bc89801
Our troop uses propane, but I still use my gas lanterns. The younger adult leaders give me grief, but I won't switch to a propane lantern anytime soon. It's neat to share the history of my lanterns. It's also funny to see their reactions (both scouts and leaders) when they flare up at the beginning of lighting. They always think the lantern is going to explode. 😂 It might be easier to use propane, and some of them may be brighter, but nothing has the character of a CF lantern.
Bob

ICCC member #1807
The Coleman Blue's 243's #145
Coleman Slant Saver #42
MilSpecOps #0037
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Thorium1
Local Troop policy. I just finished refurbishing five 220 lanterns and five 413 stoves for our local scoutmaster for this camping season. 
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dbhost
A college friend of mine has kids in the scouts where they live. I went through and cleaned up a few 425s for them, just de gunking them, testing etc.... making sure they were ready for the season coming up here. 

Our church participates, along with a large number of other churches, in similar but faith based instead of secular programs. I have facilitated donations of a few 413s, and 425s to these programs. 

So yeah white gas appliances are still out there for use in kids programs. I can't say what BSA is going to do in the future, they have made some moves over the years I wouldn't have thought would be something they would do, so no real telling where they will be in 5, 10, or even 25 years from now. 

I was in scouts in 70s and 80s. And honestly, I already knew how to operate a 2 burner CF stove safely. But I grew up with one... Our troop had a safety checkout for anything that was sharp, or could be lit on fire 

Oddly enough, I still have the backpack I bought with my own money not long after leaving the scouts. A coleman Peak 1 frame pack, and the frame is made of their RamX plastic stuff. I remember how much more comfortable it was compared to the aluminum framed Kelty packs from back then, and how much quieter it was! 

It will be interesting to see if the current generation of kids in scouting get the character development I did when I was young through the program... Not a dig at scouts, just an older generation pondering about the younger folks is all...
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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dbhost
Bill wrote:
There is no national policy prohibiting liquid fuels. I don’t know where this troop is located, but they may have difficulty using propane stoves in really cold temperatures. Propane can be environmentally responsible if you’re using 20-pound tanks, but how often do you see people running lanterns that way? Stoves, yes, but rarely lanterns.


I've been liquidating my propane stuff personally. BUT, I am one of the odd ones that actually ran a propane lantern on a distribution post. That kept the lantern more or less in the kitchen area, which is fine... 

I literally have to pack up and mail off my propane lantern, and Brinkmann SS propane stove tonight... That leaves a more or less generic propane lantern, and a Coleman Classic 2 burner stove, not to mention my Zodi Zip shower, as the only remaining propane appliances... I am / have been actively working toward going 100 % liquid fuels...
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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xvz12
During my stint as both Ass'1 Scoutmaster, & Scoutmaster, our troop was propane only, at the time I assumed it was national policy, but later I found out it was a directive from our council.  I always had a cf stove & lantern or two packed away in my gear, just in case, but never actually had occasion to use them during Scout outings.
Wynn - xvz12

ICCC#1560
MilSpecOps Syndicate #77
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0150
Looking for almost anything kero...[wink]
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KaiserKrebs
Yes, local council policy. It’s frustrating because things have changed from my Scouting days. My sons are in Scouting now, and I volunteer as well. Unfortunately I believe the driver of the bans is insurance policy costs, and also being banned in certain high fire risk camping sites. 
It burns like a Howitzer
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Redraven
We have 2 Coleman Collectors in my Troop.  We use naphtha, kerosene and propane lanterns along with liquid fueled and propane stoves.  Scouts Canada has no bans on their use.  With proper training our Scouts learn the safe way to use these appliances.  I've put on courses for the Area Scouters as well so they can use liquid fueled appliances should they choose to do so.

Guy

[colemanlanternlogo]  Electricity is overrated.

ICCC #1559
#044 in the Canadian Blues Syndicate
236 02/58, 286 12/97, 321B 01/78, 214 03/93, 214 03/93, 200 01/65, 635 '73, 621A 02/76, 621B 01/81, 325A 01/88 325A 02/89, 288B,237 01/48, 290.

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Frank6160
I set up a 413 and a 288 at grandsons Cub scout meeting recently.  Tried to explain safety and use to boys. Most had only used battery powered "lanterns" . Not surew local policy is. 
Frank
If It's Coleman
ICCC #793
275 Appreciation Syndicate #60
The Coleman Blues 243's #44
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MountainTrout
When I was a scout in the 90s our troop only used Peak 1's and a few Whisperlites. The Peak 1 stoves were for the beginners, while the WLs were for the older kids.  Those things could singe off your eyebrows if you weren't careful.
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Mike
Redraven wrote:
...I've put on courses for the Area Scouters as well so they can use liquid fueled appliances should they choose to do so.


And that is critical, especially for the troop leaders. Do they know how to use GPAs safely, nevermind teaching their scouts how to?

I've been using GPAs for 40 years, everything from torchlight lamps to instant lighting irons, and if I was a leader, I'd be handing out propane lanterns. Can't be everywhere, monitoring everybody all at once.

Mike.
My best gal is a Coleman outing pal!
2 1/2 minutes to Midnight...
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