200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
enelson14
[mvMOheot]
Here I have some sort of hole, like a casting void or something. How can I repair this? I would assume something like JB Weld is out because of the temperature. What is this piece made of? Cast iron? Would a dab of silver solder or brazing rod take on there? Is heating the piece up hot enough to do that advisable? Any other ideas?
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Gand28
That is the mixing chamber and it is cast bronze. Is it from a Quicklite or a CQ lamp?  Probably easier to just find another. Pretty common piece. 
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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dbosch
It's had it for years and worked, how much does it affect it's use?  I'd leave it alone.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
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enelson14
dbosch wrote:
It's had it for years and worked, how much does it affect it's use?  I'd leave it alone.



This lamp hasn’t been lit in 30 years. I have no idea how well it worked when it did. The frame and tube and vent are horrendously sooted, so maybe not that well. I’ve got it all disassembled to clean out the old gas, etc. 

It’s not a little cavity, it’s a hole through the material. I noticed it when I was cleaning it, I had the assembly upside down and full of water, and water was coming out of the hole.

I would think that fuel coming out of here up above the mantles would be bad, right? Or is this really not an issue?
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enelson14
Gand28 wrote:
That is the mixing chamber and it is cast bronze. Is it from a Quicklite or a CQ lamp?  Probably easier to just find another. Pretty common piece. 


Its a Quick-Lite. I am new to this hobby, thanks for the assistance. 
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Gand28
So it is a CQ lamp or a Quicklite lantern?  Doesn’t really matter as the burner assemblies are the same. You are correct that if the hole goes all the was through the mixing chamber, it is not safe to use. 

Can you post a picture of the entire assembly?  I may have a spare. 
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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Colemannut
Gand28 wrote:
So it is a CQ lamp or a Quicklite lantern?  Doesn’t really matter as the burner assemblies are the same. 


It might matter because if its for a lantern, he will possibly need a vent stud if his doesn't come out or breaks. LOL
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mgmlvks
Replacement is good - some other options if you like to tinker

  1. Drill out and braze shut, or
  2. Drill out, tap some threads, insert brass screw good and tight with hi-temp locktite, cut of screw flush, peen over the edges with a punch
Mike
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215
"In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present"
Francis Bacon
(and - for those who have asked - avatar from postcard and says "Coming Home by Rail".  https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4595/27430282209_39a564be00_z.jpg
 
 
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Majicwrench
Mike has good thoughts above, would be be simple, solid. 

They make a muffler repair paste that would probably work fine too, there is no pressure in there.

You certainly need to fix it, fumes, flames will come out of the hole.
Keith
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Eel
A leak in the mixing chamber is not a good thing, likely is involved with the way the lamp sooted up, and may be directly responsible for it being retired from service.
mgmlvks wrote:
Replacement is good - some other options if you like to tinker:
Drill out, tap some threads, insert brass screw good and tight with hi-temp locktite, cut of screw flush, peen over the edges with a punch
Mike

I like this fix.  Loctite won't do much but burn off: a copper or nickel antiseize, or a dab of muffler cement on the screw, would add some seal.  SHORT screw in order not to mess the mixing chamber's internal airflow.,

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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Colemannut
Be a lot easier to get a new one and wont have to mess with it again or worry about it happening again. VERY common and cheap part to replace. It happened for a unknown reason. Who says it wont happen again somewhere else on the mixing chamber. Just like pinholes in a lantern fount.
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Majicwrench
I find satisfaction in fixing things, and unlike a pinhole in a fount, there is no danger here.

So lots of options, let's see it lit up soon!
Keith
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JimL
I haven't tried this stuff yet, but I bet it would work.  Although muffler paste would likely work also if you had some handy.
ExtremeHeat.jpg 

-Jim

I wonder what people do with all the time they save by texting "K" instead of "OK."
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enelson14
So no thoughts on brazing over the hole? I was going to try 50% silver solder with some paste flux. I guess the worst that could happen is that I burn a hole in the brass. As an AC tech, I can also use 15% or 5% brazing rod, if anyone has any opinions.

I just wanted to try the no-cost option first. If not, can someone point me to a replacement? This is a QL 327. If  there’s one already in the classifieds, let me know, for some reason, I can’t search on mobile. Are they typically sold used as the whole assembly - tube, mixing chamber, stud, etc?
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Chucker
Brazing, yes. If you use 50% silver solder use high temp flux too. 

If you did drill, tap, and put a brass screw in you can use a mixture of Copper Anti-seize and graphite powder. Good up to 2000 deg. F with Permatex copper anti-seize in the plastic tub. I suppose just the copper anti-seize might do the trick as well. 
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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Gunhippie
If you're an AC tech and have experience and tools for brazing, that would be fairly easy and possibly permanent. I say possibly, as I've encountered brass/bronze castings before that had casting flaws like that, and found on brazing that the entire casting was porous. Really frustrating.

If you go with braze/silver solder, drill or dremel out the hole to be sure it's 100% clean and that the patch has full penetration of the casting.

That burner was used for several models and many years. If you can get the air and burner tubes out, any Q-type burner mixing chamber will work. If you get a 327/427 or anything but the earliest of the Quicklite burner assemblies, they should work just fine.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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campinut
I use this stuff on anything high temp. Thick like putty and fills large gaps..campinut.. Click image for larger version - Name: rutland-fireplace-mortar-sealants-77-64_1000 (1).jpg, Views: 206, Size: 32.11 KB
Like a moth at night, I am attracted to the light!..7/7/1964...Russ, from Missouri..
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zoomkat
You might just stick a short appropriate sized piece of wire in the hole to plug it. If the wire protrudes in the chamber a bit for cooling flow from the air/fuel mix, then it might be totally sealed with soft solder. Silver solder like below could be used if the soft solder still melts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solder-56-Silver-brazing-wire-3ft-ExtraEasy-with-1-2-ml-of-Stay-Silv-Flux/272627425101?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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kansaswoody
Colemannut wrote:
Be a lot easier to get a new one and wont have to mess with it again or worry about it happening again. VERY common and cheap part to replace. It happened for a unknown reason. Who says it wont happen again somewhere else on the mixing chamber. Just like pinholes in a lantern fount.

i agree with this. Quicklite parts are plenty! 
Drew
Turd Appreciation Member #1286
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enelson14
So, it looks like a void in the casting, it was bigger than it looks. Here it is with the outside scraped away to expose the inner void.
[NZObA6Sm]
Things have been pretty hectic at work, so I've not been able to experiment with this yet. I'll update later. I think for my initial attempt, I'm going to use 15% Sil-Phos, with some white flux. It's pretty good at sealing voids like this, if you're good with the torch tip. This solder is  good to about 1200 degrees. If that's not enough, I think the lamp may have other problems.


If it doesn't work, then whoever wants to sell me a new one can dig out whatever they have😄
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Eel
That is quite a void!  1200 F will give you some headroom - that end runs about 950-1000.

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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enelson14
Here's the repair. It went better than I thought, only used about a 1/4" of rod because I didn't want to risk filling up the inside with a lump of material.

[R6QcDAbm]
The solidus temperature for this rod is 1140 degrees, probably good, according to these threads - 
http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/How-hot-does-these-lanterns-Get-6159354

http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/lantern-operating-temperatures-8218949

Once it's all done and operating, I'll check it with a high-temp thermocouple, if I can find mine. Just for my own curiosity, really, but if I'm going to measure it, I might as well post up the results here.
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zoomkat
"Once it's all done and operating, I'll check it with a high-temp thermocouple, if I can find mine. Just for my own curiosity, really, but if I'm going to measure it, I might as well post up the results here."

Getting a contact thermocouple inside the operating lantern might be a challenge.
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MYN
That'll hold perfectly. I've done such silver-copper brazes on the mixing chamber of a Coleman 237 before.
Silvered-copper/zinc brazing rods are better suited here compared to just Copper-Phos due to the hot oxidizing environment, that'll eventually cause blackening and flaking of the latter.
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enelson14
zoomkat wrote:

Getting a contact thermocouple inside the operating lantern might be a challenge.


Shouldn't be. The thermocouples we typically use are really just wires, the junction at the end is the size of a ball-point pen point. No problem to stick through the lighting door, or even the holes in the ventilator or the frame. The current problem is I see mine are only good to about 700°, since they're typically used for chilled water. I'll have to see if I can borrow some 2000° ones from the steam boiler technician.

Its gonna be a while, though. Still waiting on my globe from Fred. The valve packing is on order from OCP. The frame is off getting HT powder coated, and the fount is full of BBs and funk right now. Oh, also - anyone here point me at the right cup for this handheld pump? I didn't see anything on OCP that I thought was right.
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Gand28
If it’s the standard lamp or iron pump, they take the regular size pump leather. 
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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enelson14
Its a 9-inch long pump with the wooden ball handle.

Is this the right one?

http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product.php?productid=77&cat=&page=1
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zoomkat
"the junction at the end is the size of a ball-point pen point."

You will probably be measuring the temperature of the hot combustion gases flowing past the thermocouple tip rather than the temperature of the metal. I would suspect the actual metal temperature will less than what is measured, as the temperature inside the manifold is probably significantly less.
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enelson14
Probably. I’m sure there’s plenty of places to get differing readings. At least, its temp coming out of the vent stack would tell me what kind of maximum I’m working with. I can get an IR imager, but I don’t really know if it’s suitable for something that’s this hot in such a compact space. 
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Gunhippie
Did it for you:

Lantern is a '59 220E, the only double-mantle I have on hand that's in good working condition.

Using a Fluke 80TK Thermocouple Module w/80PK Bead thermocouple--readings in 1 degree F/millivolt:

"Bead" clamped under the airtube retaining screw:

[47835426251_72a0d6c07c_b]

After letting things warm up for about ten minutes:

[40868764143_95b6393450_b]

The 80PK is only rated to 500F, so I'll try the 80PK-4A Air Probe, which is rated -320 to +1500F).

Placement:

[47045882824_933ebc134f_b]

[47835426301_00db9d7f76_b]

So, by any way I have to measure it, the temp of the mixing chamber is comfortably below the melting point of your braze. While i know I'm pushing the range for the bead thermocouple, it makes sense to me that the mixing chamber would be less than that of the gasses immediately outside it, as it's passing a fuel/air mix and drawing cool air from below the base plate of the frame.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Gunhippie
Hmm.. I don't know about the higher-temp accuracy of the bead thermocouple, but the insulation sure ain't up to lantern temps!

[47835574431_602d3e13cb_b]

Fortunately, I can cut the wires back a little and re-weld the bead. Good as new if a little shorter.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Gand28
enelson14 wrote:
Its a 9-inch long pump with the wooden ball handle.

Is this the right one?

http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product.php?productid=77&cat=&page=1


yes, that is the correct size pump leather. If the black wooden handle is pear shaped, it’s a Coleman. Terry Marsh has a couple pages devoted to pumps if you are interested.

https://terry-marsh.com/pump-manufacturers-a-d/
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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enelson14
Gand28 wrote:
 If the black wooden handle is pear shaped, it’s a Coleman. Terry Marsh has a couple pages devoted to pumps if you are interested.
https://terry-marsh.com/pump-manufacturers-a-d/


It's the 101-522. Not as nice-looking, though. The wooden ring around the top has split into two pieces, probably from the one incorrect wood screw in it, so I'll need to glue it together. The fit of this piece around the rod is pretty loose. Is it supposed to be a tight fit, since its not an air seal?
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enelson14
Here is my follow up, for anyone who might be interested. I didn't have any before pictures, so instead of starting a new thread in before/after, I'll just follow up here. The lamp belonged to my grandfather, I have no idea if it was purchased new or used. It had been in the storage shed for 25 years at my parents house after my grandfather passed. Unknown to everyone, the shed had developed a roof leak almost directly over the lamp, and the canvas bag it was stored in. I was going through the shed after my father passed away, and found it. The nickel was all green, and the frame  was so rusted, I thought it was unsalvageable. The old gas in the fount was no less than 40 years old, and was about the consistency of honey.
I tried to clean up the frame, collar, and burner plate, but gave up and had to have them media blasted. I opted to have them powder-coated and focused my attention on the nickle polishing. The hole in the mixing chamber appears to be sealed for good. I did find in the shed a couple of bags of vintage Silk-Lites, so with those, and the repro Q99, I think I can get as close to original as I'm going to get.

Finally light her up for the first time in probably 50 years. On July 4th, since I had the day off, so this was filling in for fireworks. This lamp is 4/28, and I have no doubt she'll be good for another 90. She'll be taking the first trip camping with my daughter and I to Palmetto State Park in August.

[image]

Thanks to all those who advised in this thread. Thanks to Rubing for the carrying case, Fred Kuntz for the mica, and OCP for all the parts.
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Chucker
Wow, that looks beautiful. So many more family memories are ready to be made with that lantern. Looks great. 
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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Gunhippie
Excellent save, and a job well done!
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Ridge Runner
Oh my! That is a very classy looking lantern. Perseverance pays off. Being such a special piece to you really makes it that much better, too.

— L.J.
Looking for a 10/15 B-Day Lantern
Don't reinvent the wheel, build a better mouse trap!
"Ain’t no need to watch where I’m goin’; just need to know where I’ve been" -Tow Mater

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Phredd
Nice job. Looks great!
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rob_pontius
That's honestly one of the nicest looking quick-lite rebuilds that I've seen in a while. It's very nicely done, but not over done. Excellent job. I hope that it makes a ton more memories to pass down through your family.
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mgmlvks
That is very nice.  Family lanterns are the best, especially with the restoration work you did with your personal skills.  Thanks for the update.
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215
"In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present"
Francis Bacon
(and - for those who have asked - avatar from postcard and says "Coming Home by Rail".  https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4595/27430282209_39a564be00_z.jpg
 
 
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