200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

Ross226
I recently purchased a 236 lantern dated 8/55.  It appeared to be in good shape with the exception of the fount which was full of black liquid and the generator, which looked shot.  I'm something of lantern novice but have disassembled and cleaned my four 335s from the 1970s - they required no repairs.

- I removed the valve assembly, cleaned the tank - vinegar soak, scrubbed with a brass chain, rinsed with gasoline, then filled with Coleman fuel.
- I cleaned the fuel air tube with brake cleaner then blew dry, polished and reassembled.
- the valve stem assembly was frozen, but with advice from the forum, I got it working (heat and penetrating oil).
- new mantles and a new generator arrived today from Mike at OCL and I installed them.

The first burn was not a success.  It took some time to get going and kept puffing out smoke and fire before it settled down.  Here's the problem:  the flame is quite yellow.  Not nearly as bright as I expected.  Rotating the valve stem does not shut it down in the 12 O'clock position (as it does with my 335s), the lantern has the most white light when the valve stem is in the 9 O'Clock position.  In the 6 O'clock position the lamp really roars, and the flame becomes quite yellow - to oxygen rich a mixture?  It's very disappointing and frankly I am out of ideas.  Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks!  (not sure why the photo displays sideways??)

Lamp first burn.jpg 

Ross
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Chucker
In order for this lantern to burn correctly the valve has to be opened up all the way, maybe 12-15 half turns. Then pump it up another 15-20 times. 

If it still burns yellow-ish you likely have an obstruction still in the air tubes or upper burner assy/mixing chamber. These often get critters that go up inside, build a nest, and leave it for your enjoyment. Those can best be dealt with using a firm wire gun bore brush or small bottle brush or even frayed wire shoved up in there. Look for pieces of mud falling out or a cottony, wispy spider nest. 


Chuck
"...we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Romans 5:3-4
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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SCOTTY
Hi. By "valve stem" do you mean the red valve wheel, or the tip cleaner (wire loop)?  
Time marches ever onward.....
The fettler is slow, but the lanterns are patient.....
Canada: come on up for the beer, stay for the universal health care.

ISO - WTB: 26/6 and 25/9 CANADIAN COLEMAN LANTERNS and LAMPS

Scott.


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Ross226
SCOTTY wrote:
Hi. By "valve stem" do you mean the red valve wheel, or the tip cleaner (wire loop)?  


Sorry, I meant the wire loop which operates the tip cleaner in the generator.
Ross
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Ross226
Chucker wrote:
In order for this lantern to burn correctly the valve has to be opened up all the way, maybe 12-15 half turns. Then pump it up another 15-20 times. 

If it still burns yellow-ish you likely have an obstruction still in the air tubes or upper burner assy/mixing chamber. These often get critters that go up inside, build a nest, and leave it for your enjoyment. Those can best be dealt with using a firm wire gun bore brush or small bottle brush or even frayed wire shoved up in there. Look for pieces of mud falling out or a cottony, wispy spider nest. 




Thanks, they (the air tubes/upper burner assembly) were cleaned and then washed out with very hot soapy water followed by a rinse and some time near the wood stove to get very hot and evaporate the water.
Ross
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Chucker
Hi Ross, welcome to the forum. Washing out the air tubes does not guarantee they are not plugged, sorry. 

Yellow-ish burn almost always means too much fuel and not enough air either because there is an obstruction in the air pathways, or the gen tip is over-sized. A Coleman mantle also tends to look more yellow than Peerless brand for instance. 

Also, the tip cleaner at the 12 o'clock position should shut the flow off (mostly anyway). If it does not either the pricker wire is crunched, burnt down, or was never long enough in the first place.
Chuck
"...we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Romans 5:3-4
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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gelane

Sounds like the wire handle for the cleaner may be bent.

Just beacuse it's at the 12 or 6 position don't assume it
is correct. The " it runs good at the 9 o'clock position"
is a giveaway.

Try turning it with the generator or gen tip off and see
where the true 12 and 6 is.


Gary

I was reading, thinking what an idiot you are, until I realized it was on of my earlier posts !

"Time is the thing we have the least of"....Earnest Hemmingway sometime in the the1930's
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Ross226
Chucker wrote:
Hi Ross, welcome to the forum. Washing out the air tubes does not guarantee they are not plugged, sorry. 

Yellow-ish burn almost always means too much fuel and not enough air either because there is an obstruction in the air pathways, or the gen tip is over-sized. A Coleman mantle also tends to look more yellow than Peerless brand for instance. 

Also, the tip cleaner at the 12 o'clock position should shut the flow off (mostly anyway). If it does not either the pricker wire is crunched, burnt down, or was never long enough in the first place.


Yes, this is what concerned me right off the bat - the mantle only dims a bit when I rotate the tip cleaner.  After the burn, I examined the generator.  The pricker wire is straight, it is at maximum extension when the loop is in the 12 o'clock position - my other lanterns shut down in such a circumstance.

I am using a generic new generator from Old Coleman Parts.  I wonder if it is inferior?
Ross
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Ross226
gelane wrote:
Sounds like the wire handle for the cleaner may be bent. Just beacuse it's at the 12 or 6 position don't assume it is correct. The " it runs good at the 9 o'clock position" is a giveaway. Try turning it with the generator or gen tip off and see where the true 12 and 6 is. Gary


Thanks Gary, did try that and the full extension is appropriately at the 12.
Ross
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mnhogrider
Take the burner assembly off. Leave the generator on. Pump up the fount and crack open the fuel valve. You should be getting a healthy spray out of the generator tip that should hit the overhead light in your shop. Turn the cleaning valve up. Does it stop it? If that's all OK then you've got blockage in the air tubes/mixing chamber.
Steve
ICCC Member #1396 
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #017
Mack, Cat and Cadillac.
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Smudge
I've used a mini mag light and a magnifying glass to observe the top of the generator to see if the needle is poking through. Also, be sure, the burner screen is present.
"If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts,
also happens to the man. Whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth.” - Chief Seattle

ICCC # 1726  -  Bernz0matiC Appreciation Club #057
Perfection Heater Collectors #6
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Ross226
mnhogrider wrote:
Take the burner assembly off. Leave the generator on. Pump up the fount and crack open the fuel valve. You should be getting a healthy spray out of the generator tip that should hit the overhead light in your shop. Turn the cleaning valve up. Does it stop it? If that's all OK then you've got blockage in the air tubes/mixing chamber.


Okay, I will try this.  I would note, I did empty the fount, pumped it up, opened the fuel valve and felt the air (coming out of the generator tip), the air was strongest at the 6 o'clock position but still significant at 12 o'clock.  I will try it with fuel in the fount and advise.

Many thanks to all for this ongoing assistance.  I really want to get this beautiful lantern going!
Ross
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Ross226
Smudge wrote:
I've used a mini mag light and a magnifying glass to observe the top of the generator to see if the needle is poking through. Also, be sure, the burner screen is present.


Yes, I can see with a magnifying glass that in the 12 o'clock position the needle is poking out.  Thanks.
Ross
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Ross226
mnhogrider wrote:
Take the burner assembly off. Leave the generator on. Pump up the fount and crack open the fuel valve. You should be getting a healthy spray out of the generator tip that should hit the overhead light in your shop. Turn the cleaning valve up. Does it stop it? If that's all OK then you've got blockage in the air tubes/mixing chamber.


I have conducted your test.  There was still a healthy spray of fuel coming up from the generator when the cleaning valve was up (12 o'clock), maybe 30% of the full amount at the 6 o'clock position.

Is this definitive that the generator is not functioning properly?  I have attached a picture to demonstrate - valve is up in this picture.   For some reason my photos are posting sideways, but I believe you can see the stream quite clearly and also the valve position.

Thanks! 
Test 1.jpg 
Ross
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Eel
Ross - Did you get the replica or the blister-pack?  Replica is helped by bronze wool or brass screen added.

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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Ross226
Eel wrote:
Ross - Did you get the replica or the blister-pack?  Replica is helped by bronze wool or brass screen added.


Dave, I got the replica.  I am unsure what you mean by using bronze wool or a brass screen.  Can you clarify please?


Ross
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offrink
To me that means that you either have a worn generator tip (or wrong size) or the pricked wire is to small. Have you tried a different generator?
Ben
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #0035
Looking for B-Day dates of 6/80, 2/84, 3/11, and 12/13
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Ross226
offrink wrote:
To me that means that you either have a worn generator tip (or wrong size) or the pricked wire is to small. Have you tried a different generator?


The generator is new, just arrived today from Old Coleman Parts.  Unfortunately I do not have another generator.  Below is what I am using.  Thanks!

  
Generator 236-299 New Style
SKU: 236-299 New Style
This is a new production 236 generator as new old stock ones are near extinct. New generator includes new gas tip, spring, and tip cleaning wire.

Our price: $15.00
Ross
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offrink
I just installed one of the same ones and mine works well but it does make an auditory pulse but no visual pulse.
Ben
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #0035
Looking for B-Day dates of 6/80, 2/84, 3/11, and 12/13
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Chucker
The gen tip may be a bit loose allowing for seepage of fuel up top. 
Chuck
"...we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Romans 5:3-4
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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Smudge
The only other thing I can think of would be the f/a tube. Did you happen to check to see if the wire retracts when the valve is turned open?
"If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts,
also happens to the man. Whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth.” - Chief Seattle

ICCC # 1726  -  Bernz0matiC Appreciation Club #057
Perfection Heater Collectors #6
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Eel
I'm working on that answer: a short version is "Nevada Ed is a generator wizard, and has made some worthy how-to posts."

Reason I am back early is -- did you remember to put the flat washer between the valve body and the burner cage?  (y'know, spacer washer like a 200A has?)  A possible reason for overrich is that the gen tip is sitting too high wrt the venturi and can't entrain air to burn.  On the fettled 236 I'm holding today, the gen body+tip projects 0.640 into the mixing chamber.

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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Wader
I would clean out the burner assembly with a rifle bore brush. I would also take out the F/A from the fount and boil in vinegar. And then put everything back together. But you will have to use loctite after to install back into the fount.
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Eel
Comparison of NOS 236-299 and new pretender.  Application of bronze wool to replicant.  [EDIT: ordinarily you'd fit the pricker rod through the spring before wrapping with bronze wool.] 
Last pic is a 237-2991 for your entertainment: similarities and differences abound.

IMG_20180305_173310095.jpg  IMG_20180305_173409129.jpg  IMG_20180305_173530746.jpg  IMG_20180305_173549965.jpg  IMG_20180305_173633090_HDR.jpg  IMG_20180305_173703939.jpg  IMG_20180305_173724345.jpg  IMG_20180305_173746029.jpg  IMG_20180305_174006645.jpg  .

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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JimL
As an FYI, the tip cleaner is just that, a tip cleaner.   It's function was never intended to shut the lantern off.  Some will shut off  (rare to me), but mostly dim as the wire goes through the tip.   It's purpose is to push out any gunk clogging the tip.  

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


I've missed you!  But I'm reloading.
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Gunhippie
With a significant amount of fuel still issuing from the gen when the cleaner is in the 12:00 position, it sounds like the tip is over-sized. I've never heard of this happening with a brand-new gen, replicant or not, but that is what it sounds like.

The bronze wool wrap is a cure for pulsing, not over-fueling.

As for the side-ways pictures, are you using an Apple phone? They don't play well with others. If you download a program to your computer called Irfanview (free!), just open the picture, then save it. Problem solved. Irfanview is also great for re-sizing and an awesome all-around viewer. I've been using it for years
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Ross226
SHE'S UP AND RUNNING PROUD!

I took the advice of Dave (Eel), but did not have bronze wool, only wire.  The only copper wire I have is 18 gauge, I wrapped it around 80% of the cleaning stem fired her up and she ran wonderfully!  Super bright!  I compared to my 335 and the difference is remarkable.

So thanks to all for the time and advice given.  This 1955 beauty is running again!

fix 1.jpg  Fix 2.jpg  Fix 3.jpg  Fix 4.jpg
Ross
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Eel
Gunhippie wrote:
  The bronze wool wrap is a cure for pulsing, not over-fueling. 


The reason this worked is because the fuel is more restricted from traveling - same as the pulse fix - but the effect we're going for this time is not so much to stomp Leidenfrost in the face, but to vaporize the fuel further down the gen.  We are running rich today because we're getting a less-than-complete vaporization before the fuel exits the gen tip.
Now look at that brand new generator.  See how far up that generator the black spot is?  We just troubleshot the actual problem by doing something (as you said) not in the book.

So what's the actual problem?  (I like big mantles, and I cannot lie.)

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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offrink
So do you think the mantle was to far from the generator or that the mantle was to small to make a complete vaporization?
Ben
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #0035
Looking for B-Day dates of 6/80, 2/84, 3/11, and 12/13
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Eel
I think the mantle is too small, or at least has burned in too small.  But I hadn't thought about the bottom of the mantle being too far away... I think you'd see that in the photos above: it would have to be a heck of a lean.

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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Ross226
The brightest lantern I previously had is of my 1970 era 335s.  I put one side by side with my now running 236.  335 rated at 350 candle power, 236 rated at 500 candle power.  Now THAT is bright! The 335 is on the right of the picture (obviously).  Peerless mantle running.

comparison.jpg
Ross
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Eel
ooh, nice. 

EEL Eclectic Lanterns, div.  Doofenshmirtz-EEL Incorporated.

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StewB
I know this is an old thread but I was doing some searching for help as I was having the same pulsing issue after putting a new generator in my 5-54 236.  In addition I was getting an aroura of flame above the new mantle (peerless)    I used 18 Ga strand copper wire because it is what I had on hand and wrapped it around the spring of my new generator.  Put it all back together, fired it up and Wala peanut butter sandwiches, no more pulsing and no aroura of flame and lamp is brighter than ever.

Thanks to Ross226 and everyone else who helped out on this thread.
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Ridge Runner
Nothing wrong with that! Most of what I’ve learned about all these different appliances has come from old threads. I like to search, it’s another version of the “thrill of the hunt”.  🙂

— L.J.
Looking for 10/2015 & 1/2020 B-Day Lanterns
I love the smell of naphtha in the morning!
"Ain’t no need to watch where I’m goin’; just need to know where I’ve been" -Tow Mater

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