200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
Willy
Hey good people
Awhile ago I picked up a very pretty lightly used AGM 2572 lantern.  I spotted a crack in the font during the purchase, so the price dropped way down.  But it came with a Glasbake globe, only one I have ever seen in the wild..  Anyway the font is the leading candidate for my first attempt at Caswell sealing.  The font has a lot of what appears to be dried mud inside.  So my question is...How do you do the BB shake/citric acid treatment to a cracked font without all the liquid leaking out?  Anything I should know about prepping fonts?  Thanks all
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ecblanks
It should only leak liquid under pressure. You should be fine doing your cleaning procedure, but just to be safe maybe do your work over a container to catch any seepage
Carlton - 9/73
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate # 0176
Slant Saver #29
Mil-Spec Ops #0973

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curtludwig
You could also put a little tape over the crack to slow the seepage down. One of the nice things about citric acid is that its so cheap having some seep out is no real big deal...
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Bill
I agree with both of the previous posts.  I use a handful of stainless steel square nuts with the acid, shaking vigorously multiple times.  I’ll take the fount to work with me and place it on its side in a shallow plastic pan (in case of seepage) on the dashboard of my car all day while it’s parked in the sun.  I turn the fount about 90 degrees each day so every square inch of the interior has been exposed to the solar-heated acid.  By the end if the week, it’s good to go.  Shake out all the acid and nuts, rinse out until effluent is clear, add some denatured alcohol, slosh it around, drain, and then place it in the sun to dry.  Ready to Caswell...
Bill Sheehy, aka Merlotrin P.M.      ICCC #1390      eBay handle: wtspe
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #24  /  Mil-Spec Ops, Bernz-o-Matic, and Sears Syndicates #58
Looking for birthday lanterns dated 4/33, 9/33 & 7/86

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Chucker
Frankly I wouldn't waste Caswell's on a 2572. There are plenty of them out there so a donor fount should be easy.
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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5fivesix
I wouldn't trust a epoxy alone to ever fix a pressurized fuel tank especially with a burning flame sitting on top of it. I would look into a permanent fix and use the epoxy as backup.
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Dmacp
I don't agree with or endorse any of the above. Caswells is glue. You are gluing a failed gasoline pressure vessel. A glue failure would be devastating. Sorry to be a stick in the mud. I had one let go on me. That changed my opinion. Mine ran for a year with no problem. I had very nearly forgotten about it. Then I got it hot. Good and hot. The glue let go of the fount. A fire extinguisher would be useless unless you had it in your hand with the pin pulled. Seriously. My 2 cents.
Dan
ICCC member #604
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curtludwig
Bill wrote:
I agree with both of the previous posts.  I use a handful of stainless steel square nuts with the acid, shaking vigorously multiple times.  I’ll take the fount to work with me and place it on its side in a shallow plastic pan (in case of seepage) on the dashboard of my car all day while it’s parked in the sun.  I turn the fount about 90 degrees each day so every square inch of the interior has been exposed to the solar-heated acid.  By the end if the week, it’s good to go.  Shake out all the acid and nuts, rinse out until effluent is clear, add some denatured alcohol, slosh it around, drain, and then place it in the sun to dry.  Ready to Caswell...


I like this idea a lot, the heat will really make the acid work. Somebody years ago strapped a fount to their lawnmower to get the BBs to shake better. I've tried that but it didn't seem to do a whole lot extra. Square nuts would be more effective than BBs...

I've also got doubts about the safety of Caswells, if I epoxied something I would mark it as such and be sure to never run it anywhere near anything I didn't mind having burn down...
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Gasman64
Dmacp wrote:
I don't agree with or endorse any of the above. Caswells is glue. You are gluing a failed gasoline pressure vessel. A glue failure would be devastating. Sorry to be a stick in the mud. I had one let go on me. That changed my opinion. Mine ran for a year with no problem. I had very nearly forgotten about it. Then I got it hot. Good and hot. The glue let go of the fount. A fire extinguisher would be useless unless you had it in your hand with the pin pulled. Seriously. My 2 cents.

+1
I've never used Caswells, and I never had any GPA fail with it, either.  HOWEVER, I'm all for erring on the side of caution and safety.  There have been badly burned people here on the CCF, and it just sounds really painful. 
Steve    ICCC #1012
The things you take for granted someone else is praying for.
 
        
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Dmacp
If you take the time to get all the rust out, (including cleaning out the pits), and you have a solid  fount, a coat of sealer is a great idea. For that, Caswell's is just the ticket.
Dan
ICCC member #604
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hikerduane
I just treated a couple items.  The old Rubbermaid bowl I used to mix the Caswell epoxy in had to be thrown out, the remaining mix stuck to it bad.  If treating a gpa with Caswells then being afraid to use it then seems silly, why even treat it.   One lantern had some seepage, the other gpa only had a rusty bottom, so it was treated to stop the rust.  I'd only fix a rare item,  not worth the expense of buying epoxy for a common gpa. 
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves who's counting.
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Dmacp
I have user lanterns and non user lanterns. I've replaced the cracked founts on many AGM's. But I'm not about  to trust them because the cracking issue is so obvious. Just asking for trouble. Plus many Coleman safety features are missing. Like the check valve and air stem.

Caswell's is an epoxy, a thermosetting  crosslinking material. But it doesn't crosslink to the fount wall, only to itself.. epoxy will let go on many materials, especially over time with temperature fluctuations. It will break loose from an ordinary plastic milk bottle quite easily.
Dan
ICCC member #604
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hikerduane
When I drank milk, I just threw them out.  🙂
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves who's counting.
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Majicwrench
I've said before, I have used POR 15 for sealing gas tanks on cars/trucks and I have used it in lanterns and stoves.  Some of my funnels and tool and even my garage floor that I have gotten POR15 on.........it's still there, years later. These are items that were not treated as per the instructions. This is tough stuff, and it sticks.  YMMV.
Keith
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Dmacp
Keith.
that's what I thought too. With POR-15 if you put it on too thick it does not dry through. It leaves encapsulated liquid under the surface. I have a case study on it if you'd like to see pictures of it I've enclosed a few. I posted them all here once upon a time but it's buried and forgotten now.
The POR let go of the surface of the fount when I got it good and hot. Prior to that I used the lantern for a year. But once it got hot it pulled away from the surface, a pinhole opened up and pressure and fuel got between the POR and the fount. I had painted the exterior of the fount with 2 part epoxy paint and it contained the fuel bubble, saving my pink A__. This was a crack, similar to an AGM crack. It was cleaned with marine clean and allowed to cure properly.
I cut this fount apart to find out more about what happened. You can see the hole (actually several) up near the top of the bubble.
I have repaired pinholes with POR and Caswell's, but I tap the bottom and tighten an epoxy dipped screw in first, and if the screw won't hold I use a bigger screw. and even that is a bad deal.
This scared the bejesus out of me and as a result I go negative on gluing cracked founts. All that stood between me and burning my house down was a layer of good tough paint. If it was a plated fount I wouldn't be here to tell about it.
Also when I did my first fount I actually put water in it just to see what it would do. It rusted right through the POR-15.

The pieces of POR that I removed are still very tough. Hard to tear or break up.

por 020.jpg por 004.jpg
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Dmacp
Long after this had happened I located an almost new fount so I rescued the Preway from the scrap heap and made it like new. It looks great and I enjoy just looking at it. The kind of feeling you get when you work very hard for something and it finally happens.
IMG_6576.jpg 
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Dmacp
several years back someone posted an obituary along with an ominous warning about using patched founts. I never did get the full story but some poor guy got doused in burning fuel. He didn't make it. The potential for having an unexpected flame thrower cannot be exaggerated. Just imagine-at the lightup-it sets the curtains on fire. Or your wife's new evening gown bought just for that occasion. Like I said, having a fire extinguisher is not enough. You need to have it in your hand with the pin pulled. And even that...
Well, OK. sermon over. <gets off soap box>
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Majicwrench
Dan,  appreciate the warning. This is not the safest of hobbies, mom always told us not to play with matches.

I have left POR15 in a cup almost 1/2" thick and it dries throughout, (I've done this a couple times)  although it tends to have bubbles in it, is more like, jeesh, what is it like..--.dense styrofoam, pressboard-- maybe, not the rock hard coating one would want.
Keith
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Dmacp
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I have left POR15 in a cup almost 1/2" thick and it dries throughout, (I've done this a couple times)  although it tends to have bubbles in it, is more like, jeesh, what is it like..--.dense styrofoam, pressboard-- maybe, not the rock hard coating one would want. 


I poured the remainder of a cup of it on the ground and was very impressed with the rock I ended up with. I've used it as a coating for the inside of good founts-also use Caswell's for it. I think the Caswell's is better but it is more expensive.
I'm kind of an AGM/Preway nut so I have had numerous occasions to use it, many quite heartbreaking. But the perspective adjustment I got from this incident and one other was quite sobering, to say the least. I feel an obligation to pass my experience along, I know it is hard for a collector to take sometimes. I've been there.     
Dan
ICCC member #604
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SteveRetherford
some nice HORROR pics there Dan , thanks for sharing em again .
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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Dmacp
here is another POR failure. This was caused by allowing the sealer to form a puddle over a crack, (actually on the bottom crimp seam) which at the time was the approved method. I don't believe it ever hardened. This is not a for sure theory. Maybe it just had bubbles in it. It's just my opinion, and I could be wrong. Judge for yourself but here is what it looked like.
liquid failure.jpg  
Dan
ICCC member #604
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SteveRetherford
ya know , i think in a car fuel tank it would have held up better . in my mind i think the heat is a huge contributing factor for us here Dan . i once JB welded a valve wheel back on to the brass . it was nice n strong till it got hot n let go . it was on a model R so the wheel was above the heat getting very hot . .

everything seems to look good till it isnt :-)

caswells says there product holds up under pressure but has anyone asked how it holds up with this kind of heat and pressure ?
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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JimL
I wish we could save Dan's pics separately for future reference.  I'm always amazed that POR-15 gets recommended on the forum when the manufacturer doesn't have confidence in its use on a pressure vessel.  Only Caswell's had confidence their product could work in a pressure vessel, but there was a post a couple of years back that showed it too can fail.   There was a bubble coming through the fount, but at least it hadn't 'popped' during use.

I can understand the use with a rare fount,just to be able to fire it up once, but not a sealer for every day use on a lantern or stove that isn't even rare.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
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Dmacp
I believe it was a member of the True North forum that had a Caswell's failure. I wish I could have seen what exactly happened but as Steve said-the heat will soften epoxy. If it is soft I would assume the strength is affected, as in most materials. And, even though epoxy is a cross-linking thermoset, it does not cross link  to the fount, only to itself. However given a choice between the two, I would opine that the Caswell's would be a better choice.
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Majicwrench
POR15, I have never seen where the maker says they are not confident of it. They do say they have not tested it and therefore cannot recommend it.

And to be clear, I have not "recommended" POR 15, only passed on my experiences with it. Which are all good, so far 🙂. That's what we do on a forum like this, is compare/discuss various opinions and experiences.
Keith
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Dmacp
I'm sure not criticizing anyone here. I've recommended it. I was for it before I was against it :-) 
Dan
ICCC member #604
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JimL
There was a thread a few years ago where a member contacted each of the manufacturers of fuel tank sealers.  Only Caswell's responded that they felt confident in our use on GPA's.  I find search all but useless on the forum with this new software, so I won't try to find it.  Besides, if the thread was in Just Bull, it may have been removed during the purge.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
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curtludwig
I wish I could find the thread from years ago when everybody was touting how great Caswells is and how it could "Safely restore any damaged fount."
At the time I said that those were dangerous claims to make. Even if its safe for some careful people, on some founts, it'll doubtlessly fail for people who aren't careful on terribly damaged founts.
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Dmacp
my repair worked fine for quite a while. Over a year. If it was an engine rebuild I'd begin to think it was past the danger point. But here it was the opposite. If you've ever had a small single mantle get hot you'd know what I mean. Sometimes they get so hot you can't touch them. That's what got me. But in the (hopefully not too) near future someone else may end up owning my lanterns. Someone who is not present for this discussion. They might see the lantern holds pressure and hisses-and begin using it like it is a new appliance. It isn't even that I wouldn't trust a repair done by a competent individual-which I think everyone here is. It's the potential of what could happen. and, as stated on this thread, our hobby, even with safe equipment, can be dangerous. I've had close calls when I least expected it. Gasoline fumes, even kerosene when a jet came loose on a roaring hot "Workhorse".  A fireball 2 feet in diameter hanging from a hook on my front porch. Put it out with a hose. I'm attracted to dangerous hobbies. airplanes, guns, fast cars, machinery all have the potential to hurt you. Or worse, someone near you.
I fixed (replaced) many cracked founts on my AGM's. But when it comes time for a lightup I use a Coleman that is in good repair. I've had AGM's crack just sitting on the shelf. I don't want to tempt fate. 
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Colemannut
Simplest way to put it. If you don't feel comfortable about using Caswell's or applying it, then you shouldn't. This is a dangerous hobby as many others are. Use your common sense. If using Caswell's, follow the directions, and ask other whom have used it successfully and you will not have any problems. Just because one guy doesn't like it or had problems using it shouldn't discourage others.
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Dmacp
Quote:
Just because one guy doesn't like it or had problems using it shouldn't discourage others


Hope no one gets hurt because of one guy's ignorance.               
Dan
ICCC member #604
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