200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
Gunhippie
I picked up an 8/'81 400-499 this weekend. I attempted to light it up today, but it would not run clean--looked too rich--when I moved the lever from Light to Run. It ran rich for a few seconds, then started flaming from the buner box. I shut it down.

I opened the fuel cap, and it looked like the fuel--already in it--was overfilled. I dumped out a couple of ounces and tried again.

Same result:

[48275770337_b78432d8fb_b]

That was just before the flame went pure orange and then strted burning in the burner box. I shut it down again, pulled the gen off (assuming there was something clogging the air system) and removed the burner rings. Nothing in the burner bow but a couple of rectangular chunks of fiberglass wick. Nothing obscuring air passages at all.

Since I found nothing wrong, it seemed wise to seek counsel before I succeeded in burning my shop down. It's not much of a shop, but it's all I have.

Any ideas?
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Flyboyfwa
I'll be interested in following this. I am having a similar problem with mine.
Andy
Mil-Spec Ops #199
Coleman Slant Saver #54
275 Appreciation Syndicate #1970
ICCC #1741
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Gunhippie
Gens don't seem to be easy to find, so I hope that's not the problem. But I'm only $5 into this, so no great loss if I can't make it work well.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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rob_pontius
Timm. Check the end of the generator real close where the tube goes into the eccentric block for a leak or small crack. Those stoves have an eccentric block and pricker in the end of the generator instead of a wire running all the way through. I don't remember if the tube is press fit or soldered into the block. Those generators warp over time, and if a PO tried to straighten it back out, they may have caused a leak in that area. You are right about those generators being hard to come by. Good luck with it and I hope it turns out to be something simple to fix. When running right, they are great stoves.
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fuel brained
I had one that did that too. gave everything a good cleaning soaked the gen in carb cleaner overnight and shook it out in the morning away from the tip. reassembled it and gave it a few minutes warm up and its worked fine till I sold it. Did the same to my 400b and it burns great.
Pastor Jeff
God said "Let there be light" so He let His Son shine.
SoCal and Lovin' It
US Navy Submarine Cold War Veteran
MilSpec Ops #1960 "Feel the Roar"
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peterthevet
Play around with the amount of pressure that you initially have in the tank. Make sure burner rings are alinged correctly, make sure the top plate screw isn't cranked down to hard. Try running it and see if it gradually improves. Probably none of these things but worth checking.
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pyro_P
6/87 400A owner here, IMO, while the burner is apart, see if you can set fire to the 2 rectangular chunks of fibreglass.
They could be fuel/gas soaked.
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zoomkat
Does the stove continue to burn with yellow flame after running a while, or does the yellow flame go away? If the flame goes away, it is probably just startup flooding.
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Gunhippie
Thanks, all. I'll try some of these suggestions later today, if I get my other fettles done.

Zoom--The orange flames get worse as the stove runs. After a minute or so, it's thoroughly flooded and starting to burn from the box. It looks like above immediately after starting, with the control valve (pricker) open halfway. Open full, it flood immediately.

It's been sitting empty overnight. I'll give it a try again before I start digging into it. I'll try pre-heating this time and see if that improves things.

I had intended to sell this one, but I don't like to sell something unless I know that it works.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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zoomkat
I think over feeding of fuel would be a rare occurrence (unless significantly over pressurized), so the other suspects of blocked air flow thru the burner assembly and possible issues in the generator. It might be possible that the generator is sufficiently coated/gummed up that the fuel is just not getting sufficiently vaporized as it passes thru the generator. Unfortunately the "over the top" generators are just not designed to be cleaned by the user. 
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HercL4D2
Remove the generator, pump the stove and determine if the valve is leaking, if so it is a failed Schrader inside the fuel/air feed tube inside the tank. remove the grate, burner rings, burner bell and the burner box. Inspect the burner box for any obstruction at the jet feed tube or around the insulator pads and any contamination of the pads. Look closely at the generator gas jet and operate the lever to determine if the cleaning needle is poking out and retracting properly. Generators are no longer available. Flooding is caused by too much fuel in tank, failed Schrader valve, broken cleaning needle in the generator and bug nests / spider webs in burner box or a Bunsen burner and tubes.
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Jay C B
HercL4D2 wrote:
Remove the generator, pump the stove and determine if the valve is leaking, if so it is a failed Schrader inside the fuel/air feed tube inside the tank. remove the grate, burner rings, burner bell and the burner box. Inspect the burner box for any obstruction at the jet feed tube or around the insulator pads and any contamination of the pads. Look closely at the generator gas jet and operate the lever to determine if the cleaning needle is poking out and retracting properly. Generators are no longer available. Flooding is caused by too much fuel in tank, failed Schrader valve, broken cleaning needle in the generator and bug nests / spider webs in burner box or a Bunsen burner and tubes.


400s do not have a Schrader valve. They were introduced on the 400A or 400B, not sure which. 
Some would rather curse the darkness than light a Coleman lantern...
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Majicwrench
That style is super easy to flood, and once flooded seems like it will never clean up.
Have you had one like that before?? Follow directions to the letter. Number of pumps (more is good) and have match/lighter right at burner when you open valve. If you are opening valve, then reaching for a lighter it's too late. Have flame right there!

And yes, once flooded it will start burning down below, you will swear there is a leak...
Keith
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HercL4D2
Jay C B wrote:


400s do not have a Schrader valve. They were introduced on the 400A or 400B, not sure which. 


I found a manual on the 400-499 Stove like Gunhippie has. The original valve assembly with the fuel air pickup tube is made of brass and it does have the Schrader valve installed. The p/n is 400-5571. Possibly Coleman eliminated the brass fuel air pickup tube and introduced the fuel air pickup tube with a Schrader valve renaming the new valve assembly from 400-5571 to 400-5551. There are a few posts where people have had problems with the brass fuel air tubes. I still have one that I could never get to stop flooding. No matter how many Schrader valves I tried and how the Schrader valve was adjusted. Bottom line is that fuel is not going to get to the gas tip unless there is a stop gasket before the valve lever. As soon as you start pumping that stove fuel is leaking into the burner box.  OCP has the new valve. Change it and I believe your problems go away as long as the generator is serviceable. THE ORIGINAL p/n IS 400-5571. Any of the 400 series valves with the plastic fuel air pickup tube will fit your stove.
http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

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Jay C B
HercL4D2 wrote:


I found a manual on the 400-499 Stove like Gunhippie has. The original valve assembly with the fuel air pickup tube is made of brass and it does have the Schrader valve installed. The p/n is 400-5571. Possibly Coleman eliminated the brass fuel air pickup tube and introduced the fuel air pickup tube with a Schrader valve renaming the new valve assembly from 400-5571 to 400-5551. There are a few posts where people have had problems with the brass fuel air tubes. I still have one that I could never get to stop flooding. No matter how many Schrader valves I tried and how the Schrader valve was adjusted. Bottom line is that fuel is not going to get to the gas tip unless there is a stop gasket before the valve lever. As soon as you start pumping that stove fuel is leaking into the burner box.  OCP has the new valve. Change it and I believe your problems go away as long as the generator is serviceable. THE ORIGINAL p/n IS 400-5571. Any of the 400 series valves with the plastic fuel air pickup tube will fit your stove.
http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1



EXCELLENT FEEDBACK!  Thank you for the very specific information. I’m wondering, as your part numbers suggest, whether there was an intermediate change that wasn’t significant enough to justify the first letter appendix (A). My 400s, which I have torn down, are all manufactured earlier than the one that is subject of this post (8/81). I have a very late one, too, that worked fine as found and so had never been apart, but I think I’ll tear it down to see whether it has the Schrader. 
Some would rather curse the darkness than light a Coleman lantern...
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HercL4D2
Jay C B. I am sure that Coleman used what ever left over parts they needed to fill a quota for the day or week. Their parts do not have numbers on them so it is a matter of a visual check and a ruler to determine if it will work. The only reference there is is the illustrated parts diagrams in the user manuals. I had a 440, the 400-499 and a couple others that had the brass tube with the Schrader that never would shut down. I changed out those valves with the plastic F/A tube.
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Gunhippie
Wow. Herc, your reply # 14 went totally weird, and is vertically filling the entire page, which makes reading this difficult--at least from my point of view.

When I get to it, I'll figure out what exactly is wrong with this little stove, and fix or not. I do have the manual with the stove, and lots of great suggestions to follow.

Strangely, as I was writing this, the vertical post went away. Now there is nothing from reply #14.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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HercL4D2
Gunhippie. I saw the vertical post on reply#14 also. Do not know how that happened and now it is gone. Something wrong with how the mechanics of the web page works.
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Majicwrench
Still shows weird post on mine, let's see if it is still around after I click "post"
Keith
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Majicwrench
Still here...
Keith
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JimL
HercL4D2 wrote:
Gunhippie. I saw the vertical post on reply#14 also. Do not know how that happened and now it is gone. Something wrong with how the mechanics of the web page works.


I'm not certain, but think the vertical posting like this in the past was caused by copying and pasting the username's link into a post rather than manually typing the name. 

-Jim

I wish Noah had swatted the two mosquitoes.
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HercL4D2
Looks like it is gone now, post #14 magically appeared. This web page has a ghost?




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Gunhippie
Yep, #14 is back and readable!

Thanks. I doubt the valve is leaking, as the stove had very good pressure when I first opened the cap, after sitting for who know how long. When I get a chance, I'll pull the gen again and pump it up to be sure.

I've got a fair fettle backlog right now and this stove is pretty far down the list.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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JimL
>>Looks like it is gone now, post #14 magically appeared. This web page has a ghost?

Most likely a mod traveling incognito.

-Jim

I wish Noah had swatted the two mosquitoes.
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Majicwrench
I've been there...done that...with my first stove with this kind of burner....I was sure something was wrong.....but it was just the loose nut behind the wheel.
Keith
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Gunhippie
Majicwrench wrote:
I've been there...done that...with my first stove with this kind of burner....I was sure something was wrong.....but it was just the loose nut behind the wheel.


I can not discount that possibility!
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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HercL4D2
Majicwrench wrote:
I've been there...done that...with my first stove with this kind of burner....I was sure something was wrong.....but it was just the loose nut behind the wheel.

What loose nut behind the Wheel?  This stove does not have a wheel.
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JimL
Gunhippie wrote:


I can not discount that possibility!


You think it could be Keith's fault?    [sSc_hiding]

-Jim

I wish Noah had swatted the two mosquitoes.
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Majicwrench
Sure, blame everything on me....




My wife does......
Keith
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Gunhippie
Well, I'm putting this one down to operator error.

I released any pressure, then added 10 strokes. Pre-heated with a torch. Stove lights and runs perfectly. I killed it, let cool, released pressure again and started with 10 strokes. Used the Instant-lite circuit this time, and again, works fine. Instead of slavishly following the instructions, I waited for the flame to falter a bit and gradually added pressure. After a minute or so, it was again running perfectly.

[48325479176_b5a2d9bf07_b]

Seems like this stove is very sensitive to over-pressure.

Thanks all for the suggestions and help.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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HercL4D2
I like your picture , it has the lighting instructions in red print on a white background and the important words are all in caps and bold print. Hum!!
I have always found when I don't read the Instructions it all goes South..
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My Name Is Earl
Good info !   thanks to all who posted
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Gunhippie
Actually, Herc, it was the lighting instructions that led me astray! The part about continuing to pump while it warms up--60 strokes--had the stove overpressurized. By just pumping enough to keep the flame steady until it burned clean, it worked instead of flooding.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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HercL4D2
Happy you got it resolved.
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