200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
HillCountry
I did my first paint job on a 220J fount, using Rust-oleum grey primer and Dark Hunter Green gloss enamel. I baked the primer at 200 degrees for 30 minutes yesterday and then did the green topcoats today. After setting up well, I baked the fount at 200 degrees for 30 minutes also. My question is how long should I wait before polishing and reassembling? Is it ready to go or do I need to cure longer?

Thanks!
Tim

Tim - ICCC Member #1217
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Scouterjan
should be ready to go. Does it feel nice and hard?
Jan

"ebgone bahwagh agi" Harvest Gatherer

Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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HillCountry
Jan, I think so, but since it is my first attempt, I'm not 100% certain. I thought about using Patrick's method of just hitting it with the heat gun for 20 minutes, but my wife didn't object to my using the oven, so I just baked it. I know that the body shop told me not to polish my wife's car for several weeks after it was painted, so I thought that I might need to wait on the fount also. I know that you are a former auto re finisher, so you are the expert in this crowd, I'm certain!
Tim - ICCC Member #1217
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MotorcycleDan

I also put clear coat on them. Use the same method as the primer and paint.

Dan ICCC #900
ICCC Treasure
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lundmonkey
I 'POLISH' after the 2nd clear coat and a light wet sanding with 2000 grit , but wait a minimum of 30 days before WAXING.
Ed Toner - GA
ICCC #917
  • "We own nothing in this life.  We simply assume possession for an unspecified period of time."
  • "I've never been this old before, and I'll never be this young again."
  • "Never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion!"
  • "75% of the people make up 3/4 of the population."
  • "In two short days, tomorrow will be yesterday"
  • "Enjoy life...it has an expiration date!"
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lundmonkey
Quote:
Questions from a newcomer! Not trying to hijack the thread, but hope all is related.
 
Hey Cliff - Opinions and procedures will vary.  This is an overview of my procedure after being 'educated' by more experienced forum members.
 
1.  The Rust-Oleum Dark Hunter Green & Hunter Green are applicable to the individual lantern's year of manufacture.
 
2.  The oven baking process is used to cure the paint.  Some suggest buying a toaster oven at a garage sale or flea market, but I would suggest investing $49 at Wal-Mart and getting the GE (General Electric) convection model.  It is big enough to hold 2 founts or 2 frames (globe) at one time.
 
3.  The paint procedure I have been happiest with is:
  1. Strip, wash & thoroughly rinse fount
  2. Wipe surface with denatured alcohol
  3. Apply 1st thin coat of Rust-Oleum light gray auto primer
  4. Air dry for 24 hours
  5. Oven dry for 30 minutes at 150 degrees (f)
  6. Lightly wet sand with 1500 grit black paper
  7. Wipe surface with denatured alcohol
  8. Apply 2nd coat of Rust-Oleum light gray auto primer
  9. Air dry for 24 hours
  10. Oven dry for 30 minutes at 150 degrees (f)
  11. Lightly wet sand with 1500 grit black paper
  12. Repeat steps 2 thru 11 for 2 coats of color paint and 2 coats of Rust-Oleum Clear Engine Enamel (heat resistant up to 500 degrees (f) plus Gas & Oil Resistant).  Following the final wet sanding of Clear Coat, polish (not wax) using horizontal strokes only (not circular) and shine with soft cloth.  I use the Turtle Wax Polishing Compound that comes in the black plastic bottle.
  13. Apply a coat of wax after 30 days.
I am currently experimenting with 'Rust-Oleum Self Etching Primer' in lieu of the automotive primer.  I am hoping this will improve the bonding to the bare metal.
 
I hope this helps.
Ed Toner - GA
ICCC #917
  • "We own nothing in this life.  We simply assume possession for an unspecified period of time."
  • "I've never been this old before, and I'll never be this young again."
  • "Never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion!"
  • "75% of the people make up 3/4 of the population."
  • "In two short days, tomorrow will be yesterday"
  • "Enjoy life...it has an expiration date!"
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ToonSgt
I'm a big fan of the self etching primer so far.  It really fills in scratches and imperfections well, allowing a super smooth base for the color coats. 

In case your wondering, if you don't bake Rustoleum, it will take days or weeks to fully cure in my experience. 

I've had really good results following the minimum recoat times on the can and baking after the final color coat and skipping the clear.  I'm sure a coat of two of clear would be the icing on the cake, but I don't have any show pieces and all mine are users.

Feel free to chime in on this guys, but I've had better luck with this method than baking between coats.  Seems that maybe the solvent in the paint softens the previous layer making a tougher, more homogenous shell.  Don't know if that's a good thing or not, but works well for me and has proven pretty durable. 

It's amazing how good you can make something look with a rattle can and some technique.

Mike

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HillCountry
Thanks for all the help. I had good luck with the Rust-Oleum Dark Hunter Green, but the clear coat did not go on as nicely. I will see if a little clear coat polishing compound will smooth it out or if I need to wet sand it. My working room temperature was a little cooler and i tried to twirl it from a coat hanger rather than just moving around it like I did with it stationary. I am baking the clear coat right now and going to polish after it cools.
Tim - ICCC Member #1217
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Scouterjan
do a simple test, either re bake and or take a little polish to a small section
Jan

"ebgone bahwagh agi" Harvest Gatherer

Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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smitty316
I just painted 3 last weekend with rust-oleum dark hunter green.  I gave them each a light first coat, a full coverage 2nd coat, and a heavy third coat, waiting only 15 minutes between coats in my 70 degree garage.
Then before the third coat was dry, just tacky, I sprayed them with Rust-oleum cystal clear enamal (clear)  This stuff drys faster, so one more coat about 15 minutes later and bake.  Make sure that you overlap each stroke line by half and plenty of light so you can see your coverage and move on
when it looks wet.  I have found if you let rust-oleum dry to much and hit it
with clear the clear coat will lift the paint.  Thats why I apply clear coat before any baking.  Just like base/clear in the autobody shop.  This method also works well with dupicolor paints and clears.

thats my 2 cents....

Good luck and have fun

smitty

Jim "Smitty" Smith  ICCC #1194  Collector of Vintage Gas Pressure Appliances
Former President of the International Coleman Collectors Club
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HillCountry
Thanks guys! This is my first attempt and just doing a 220J so that I can learn on common lanterns before trying something more desirable. I'm itching for it to cool so that I can reassemble the darn thing!
Tim - ICCC Member #1217
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Norton
'Rust-Oleum Self Etching Primer'

It is the best raw metal primer product I have ever used.  It is very hard to remove after you have applied the second coat. It also is very resistant to fuel and other petrol based products.
Just my novice two cents
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MantleMidget
ToonSgt wrote:
............

Feel free to chime in on this guys, but I've had better luck with this method than baking between coats. 



I do the same as Mike and Smitty, all wet coats then bake (with or without clear). I'm really impatient though and hate dust, so I do it even faster, often waiting only 5 - 10 minutes max between wet coats then it goes straight into the shop oven for the bake. I've had great results and I think the shorter "open" time drastically reduces the time for dust to settle in the paint.
The other Mike
__________________
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MustXcape

Just a couple of thoughts and a question:

* If you search the forum, you will find examples of a great product and good color match to contemporary Coleman products using Rust-Oleum Universal Gloss Spray Paint in #245214 - Gloss Hunter Green. The tone is slightly different than Rust-Oleum Stops Rust Gloss Protective Enamel Spray #7738830 - Hunter Green or # 7733830 - Dark Hunter Green.

* Try to stick to the same brand for the primer, basecoat/topcoat, and clearcoat, if used.

* If you add a decal or sticker to your project, seal the edges in place with a clearcoat.

Now my question, for those of you who use a convection oven to cure paint, have you encountered problems with dust or dirt embedding in the finish, carried by the swirling convection currents?
I can stop collecting anytime. I just don't want to.... Soooo.... How much do you want for that?
[75x48200a1][75x4840][75x4810][75x4820][75x4860][75x4890][75x4830]
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lundmonkey


Ed Toner - GA
ICCC #917
  • "We own nothing in this life.  We simply assume possession for an unspecified period of time."
  • "I've never been this old before, and I'll never be this young again."
  • "Never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion!"
  • "75% of the people make up 3/4 of the population."
  • "In two short days, tomorrow will be yesterday"
  • "Enjoy life...it has an expiration date!"
Quote
cuyeda
Thank you for all your comments, and thank you to the original poster for letting me ask a few questions. All of the tips will be very helpful.

Could I use the gas barbecue grill with a thermometer to bake the paint, ie. when I paint a stove?
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MantleMidget
MustXcape wrote:


Now my question, for those of you who use a convection oven to cure paint, have you encountered problems with dust or dirt embedding in the finish, carried by the swirling convection currents?

YES,
My shop oven is an old bakery oven with a high volume squirrel cage fan in the back of the oven box (two actually since it's a double decker). I had to fashion sheetmetal deflectors to redirect the air since it would blow lightweight hanging parts into each other and sometime blow powder right off of parts when I was doing PC. This might not be a problem with a recycled kitchen (convection) oven though, I don't know. Anyway, I treat the oven(s) like I would a spray booth, blowing them out real good and sometimes tack-ragging the interior and/or pulling the inner shell panels out to clean for the more important stuff. When I started doing more PC stuff, I installed switches to bypass the fans momentarily when delicate parts when in, this required a close focus on the process though.

cuyeda wrote:
.......

Could I use the gas barbecue grill with a thermometer to bake the paint, ie. when I paint a stove?


I believe a lot of folks use their gas grills for baking paint and all sorts of other shop related stuff too. W.D. (Holmfirth) just posted some details on that along with pics of his stellar results using a gas grill here > clicky<.

The other Mike
__________________
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MustXcape
@MantleMidget

Thank you. I have been fortunate to obtain a large secondhand rotisserie oven with a low temp range, mechanical timer, and selective convection heat. I have used it successfully for a number of projects including PC but have yet to try the convection feature (except for heating parts) due to the dust/dirt concerns. I am considering fitting a filter to the unit, but have some concern it may impede the fan performance and burn out the motor.

@cuyeda

It has been mentioned in previous posts that a rotisserie oven or a electric smoker are also good choices.
I can stop collecting anytime. I just don't want to.... Soooo.... How much do you want for that?
[75x48200a1][75x4840][75x4810][75x4820][75x4860][75x4890][75x4830]
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MantleMidget
@MustXcape:

My initial concern was the same; how to reduce buffeting without restricting airflow or hurting the fan motors. I think I'm lucky there since mine are squirrel cage type which I believe are more forgiving than a 'prop' style fan. My rocket surgeon theory was that they will just experience some level of cavitation without loading the motor too much and with 50% of the inlet restricted, they have run for countless hours without complaint (this is real commercial stuff though, no el cheapo crap from overseas)



The other Mike
__________________
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Ratbikerx

All this discussion drove me to fashion a quick way to at least heat my recent spray job on my frame from yesterday afternoon. 

Take a box, poke a hole in it, feed wire holding frame through box.  Then drop into vent closest to furnace (the hottest one) and move box over the vent.  My Polish curing oven....(no offense, I'm Polish)

I will likely get an old toaster oven from the local Goodwill....

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HillCountry
My family had a typewriter repair store when I was a kid. We had a metal cabinet with infra-red heat lamps inside on the top and sides. We would paint the typewriter parts and bake them (usually hammertone or wrinkle finish). I wish I had that oven and shop now!
Tim - ICCC Member #1217
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cuyeda
Question: 

After the final coat of color, do I color wet sand it before the clear coat goes on?
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MantleMidget
cuyeda wrote:
Question: 

After the final coat of color, do I color wet sand it before the clear coat goes on?


Like I said earlier, I don't wait more than 5 - 10 minutes for anything, just keep putting material on, including clear. KEEP IN MIND that I  test my process FIRST, so I have no concern over paint compatibility, I go straight from primer to base color to clear, no baking or drying between. Then when all coats are on, it goes in for baking.

If your base color has dried/baked, then yes, I would wet sand before continuing with your clear process.

The other Mike
__________________
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fourpz

I picked up an old Toaster oven on Kijiji for $10.00 it is big enough to hang two founts in it, and has a big door for easy access.

Brad
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nadasy

Hi,
Finally I found a forum that makes sense and people know what they are doing.    I'm a metalsmith and have started to work on enameling on metal, specifically Sterling Silver.  I have been searching for weeks about curing the enamel on the metal, and finally found your forum.  I know this isn't specifically about Coleman pieces, but just wanted to check if curing in a convection oven which also can bake, work?  

I have an old Calphalon, and since I don't use it any more I thought I'd use it for curing enamels on metal.  This would make it more resistant to damage, chips, no?  Brooches/Pins, earrings, and necklaces are what I would use it on mostly, as I caution people about wearing jewelry while operating farm equipment, animals, and while playing sports.  Most of what I do is restoration on the 1920's-40's Sterling pieces for people as well as restoning them, but I'd like to incorporate enameling into my inventory of studio pieces I make.  

Some of the questions are:
1.  Convection or as a toaster oven.  Temps are from 140-475
2.  There is an aluminum fitted pan in the bottom covering the heating elements-leave it in there?
3.  There is a metal oven shelf, do I need something on top of that to hold the piece, like a pan or tempered glass?
4.  Do I need to protect the Rhodium finish on the Sterling with some kind of flux or resist paste or will the low temps damage finishes?
5.  Use the times you recommended?

I hope this is not too far off topic.  
Regards, 

Dinah 

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Scouterjan

first off welcome, I use a toaster oven with convection built in, I use the convection setting when curing paint, the fan speeds up the process, only drawback is and dust will get blown on wet paint, so make sure it dust free, I leave the pan in the bottom, and use some cooling racks, for baking pies etc, to set my painted objects on, sorry can't answer your Jewelery questions
Jan
"ebgone bahwagh agi" Harvest Gatherer

Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
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toddcline
I like ALL the above comments. I always bake my paint jobs as well. One thing that I didn't see mentioned that is worth saying, DON'T USE A GAS OVEN!!!!  Paint fumes are flammable. Unless you have good insurance and have been wanting a kitchen remodel, use an electric oven only!

Todd
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
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Meodee
I use a gas oven at 200 degrees......I paint, let it sit....a couple minutes and then put it in.

I can tell you what not to do, is spray silicone inside your pellet stove hopper with it running. You will here a loud bang followed by a cleaned exhaust pipe and singed eyelashes. Ask me how I know? LOL

No Primer here

One coat of Rust-oleum Ultra Cover Hunter Green
baked at 200 for 30 minutes

let cool


One coat of Rust-oleum  Ultra Cover Gloss Clear
baked at 200 for 30 minutes



This is a CL2 fount and should be painted with Rust-oleum Stops Rust Dark Hunter Green. It's for a friend and went with the lighter Coleman color.

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toddcline
OK Meodee, I guess if you have done the gas oven thing I can't doubt you. I was just erring on the side of caution. About 20 years ago I was working at a shop that did reconditioned bakery equipment and we had an incident with fresh paint in a gas oven. We had several big bakery ovens in the shop and we also were reconditioning other equipment. Small Hobart mixer was freshly painted after a overhaul and the boss said it had to go "yesterday". so the mixer was placed in the big Middleby-Marshall oven we had there to cure the paint, and about 10 minutes later we had a fire on our hands. To be fair, this oven had a big twin tube open burner the entire 10-foot length of the oven, open flames etc. BUT... After that, I have ALWAYS been very cautious about paint fumes and open flames.  Can you blame me??

Todd
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
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Meodee
Oh I agree with you 100%.......I have seen that happen before!

I spray in the basement, then transport the piece upstairs to an oven. I wouldn't suggest spraying in the same room unless it's well ventilated.  A good check is to make sure your oven has a concealed flame, not one that has an open flame for the burner, like that of a broiler. Most newer ovens have a plate with vents over the open flame and then the cover.

Edit: Make sure the part is completely clean of fuel. You will also notice in my photo that the old valve assembly has on old scubbie stuffed into both ports so it can vent. You do not want this completely sealed. 
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toddcline
Meodee, Several years ago I constructed a homemade spray booth in my basement. Just some 3/8" plywood with a $70.00 squirill-cage fan that I modified to be explosion-proof.( just install some rubber between the motor and the fan housing ).  I just ran a common 4" dryer vent out the side of the wall. I use cheap furnace filters in the booth itself, and it works great. I use a "lazy-susan" turntable in the paint booth and it is just super.  I live in Michigan and when it's 10 below outside I can still paint!

Todd
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
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Meodee
toddcline wrote:
Meodee, Several years ago I constructed a homemade spray booth in my basement. Just some 3/8" plywood with a $70.00 squirill-cage fan that I modified to be explosion-proof.( just install some rubber between the motor and the fan housing ).  I just ran a common 4" dryer vent out the side of the wall. I use cheap furnace filters in the booth itself, and it works great. I use a "lazy-susan" turntable in the paint booth and it is just super.  I live in Michigan and when it's 10 below outside I can still paint!

Todd



 2 great minds think alike!!!! 


I have a box (crate) in the garage that I picked up at work to do the same exact thing. It's like 4x4. I'm going to vent it out the small basement window. I have the same problem here in Vermont with the weather, with the price of fuel I don't even fire up the garage heat!
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hhampo
Any advice for those of us who aren't able to bake our projects?
hampton harbin
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Meodee
hhampo wrote:
Any advice for those of us who aren't able to bake our projects?


You don't want to use a toaster oven?
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toddcline
Hampton, is it an issue of not using the kitchen oven? If so, look for a cheap 50 dollar electric oven on craigslist or the local paper. Put it in the garage..  If that still is not an option, wait until summer when it's 80 degrees and do it outside. I used to do that before I built my paint booth. But you really can't get a hard finish without baking it on I'm afraid.. Just the way it is.... Unless you get custom mixed automotive epoxy paint, but at $100.00 + a gallon, ( yes you need a minimum of 1 gallon ), I think it's best to do it this way. The epoxy paint still needs to have certain drying conditions as well...

Todd
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
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nadasy
Thanks so much for replying.  I've put the convection oven on the closed in porch.  There is no heat in there, all glass windows kind of thing, but I store my woodworking tools there.  I have an Oxygen tank and my Acetylene tank in my studio, and just precautionary moved it to the porch.  I've put on convection lowest temp and will check in 20 min.  

I guess my biggest concern was the metal melting, but melting temps for sterling is pretty high.  Tim McCreight has a section on Heat Hardening in one of my books, for after soldering, and it's 280C for 2 1/2 hours, so I think it will be okay.  

I'm going to try some brass and copper to see what effects that has.

Again, I appreciate your comments.
Dinah 
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nadasy
Ok, I learned something-of course, probably reading the directions would have helped.....
The oven doesn't like to be cold.  The porch is about 18 degrees.  I brought it back inside and put it on the kitchen counter, and it's fine.  I put a thermometer in the oven, just to check, and 20 min. on lowest setting for the convection is 140-150.  

I think now, I'll clear a shelf in my studio the oven.  I'm not sure the fumes in the kitchen are such a great idea, and I have an exhaust system in the studio.

Maybe I'll have to open up the attic and get the directions out of the box....
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Meodee
HillCountry wrote:
My question is how long should I wait before polishing and reassembling? Is it ready to go or do I need to cure longer?

Thanks!
Tim



I put mine together this morning filled it with fuel and fired it! The CF didn't even affect the paint.
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Keymasawbe

My paint baker/drier. Pictured here is a really nifty thing to do with an old camera tri-pod. I got this from the free pile at a garage sale because it was missing the camera adapter plate. You can buy a twin halagon light on a tri-pod pre made, but this is so much handier. Goes down to around 2 feet hight to over 6 feet high and aims presicely where you want it, and less clunky and heavy, packs away really small. Please note the metal loop the light is attached to, I think it came from the clunky pre-made thing. Very important, my first proto-type I used self tapeing screws to attach the light directly to the plastic, the housing gets so hot it melted right off the plastic. Anyway, it became my paint baker kinda by accident just because it makes such a great painting light to see imperfections. With that loop, you can aim the light almost straight down and hover it over your painted fount. I never measured the temperature, but I am guessing around 120, hot, but not hot enuf to start a fire. I am guessing I get a bit of infra-red thing going on too.


class="bbc_img">
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nadasy
That is an outstanding set up and idea!  I have a few old tripods I don't use anymore, and a lamp like that.  I had a few in my KW for emergencies, and kept them for the horse trailer.  I can always spare one and retrofit it in case the convection oven doesn't last, but so far, the three pieces I did this morning will be ready to post on Monday.
Dinah
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Keymasawbe
Glad you like it Dinah. The only thing I don't like about it is that with all 3 legs fully extended, they take up space in my small shop and give ya something to trip over. So if you decide to make one, pick the one with the longest center pole, and when going up use that first.
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nadasy
Good point.  I was making a metalsmithing video for a class, and kept tripping over the tripod.  Not a good move as I had hot metal in the tongs, which to drop, the hot metal or save the camera.  

Of course I saved the camera......LOL  For some reason that piece of metal was quite thin gauge, and it only left a teeny mark on the floor.  

This is good to consider, I don't have much space in my studio either.  
Great suggestion.
Dinah
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ChuckDynasty
If you do a partial repainting and retaining the original Coleman logo can you put into oven with the decal on? Thanks
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Chucker
Someone asked about time/temp up there...I use 175deg.F for 1 hour. Like MantleMidget I just spray, wait 10 min, spray, however I wait 1 hour before placing the piece in a toaster oven. I find that when the piece is done and cooled its ready for reassembly.
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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Birdman
Quote:
If you do a partial repainting and retaining the original Coleman logo can you put into oven with the decal on? Thanks


Can't say for sure as I've never tried it, but guessing if the heat didn't melt/discolor the decal, then the expansion/contraction of the fount would probably cause the decal to crack.

Tom
Tom
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #400
The Coleman Blue's 243's #103      
"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way"
Mark Twain
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greendohn
I was advised to use the "etching" primer on the clean bare metal, let cure.

Paint bomb and let it air dry because the paint bomb cures from the inside out and to use heat would reverse this process. 

Wet sand as needed between coats to work out imperfections, ie. dust and sech.

All of my lanterns are "mules" and I am an admitted hack,,I restore these fine old lanterns to use and hopefully buy 'em another 40 years or more of bringing light to the dark.

This is an interesting thread and I'm gonna' try to heat/bake a fresh paint job. The humidity around here makes for very long dry/cure times. A low temp "bake" would have to help.
 Thanks for the thread guys.

milspec #0656
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18406_sus
@ Nadasay:

Here is an excellent link from the archives on applying porcelain to Coleman vents. The heat needed for this process is in the 1400 degree range.

http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/yes-you-can-reporcelainize-a-vent-in-your-garage-6879966?highlight=porcelain+vent&pid=1283223520#post1283223520

Eamon
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