200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
holliswood
About a month ago I bought some 500cp mantles for my Aida lantern. It’s my first Kero lantern and bought the Britelyt/Petromax mantles. I’ve had one out of five to perform perfectly. The one I had work got messed up from a bumpy car ride. Anyway, I’ve been extremely careful in handling them in every way possible. They all have survived the preheater torch. No holes anywhere. When I open the valve it instantly blows a hole in the bottom. I open the valve slowly. I preburn them and let them cool for at least 30 minutes. Pressure is at 1atm on running preheater torch and opening valve.

I guess my question is, would I be better off with a Peerless 24a or Peerless 111? They both sound almost the same as far as what they’ll fit. The Britelyt mantle just feels to soft. My mantles are individually wrapped with no logo or anything.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Maybe try using the preheater cup (assuming it has one) without pressure in the fount.  Once the generator is preheated, then begin pumping with the valve open (pricker rod down).  A possible alternative is to just open the valve very slowly once preheated.

Also, is the burner completely intact?

I can't address the BriteLyt mantles, but was told by a Peerless rep that the very first light-up with a new mantle should be with low pressure.  I believe this helps, regardless of mantle brand.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Maybe try using the preheater cup (assuming it has one) without pressure in the fount.  Once the generator is preheated, then begin pumping with the valve open (pricker rod down).  A possible alternative is to just open the valve very slowly once preheated.

Also, is the burner completely intact?

I can't address the BriteLyt mantles, but was told by a Peerless rep that the very first light-up with a new mantle should be with low pressure.  I believe this helps, regardless of mantle brand.


All it has is the preheater torch as of now. I’m not sure how accurate the gauge is. It has been restored with new washers and fittings. Everything as far as air and fuel passages were cleaned and functional. Burner is completely intact. I just feel like the ones I have are really thin. The Coleman and Peerless mantles I have feel somewhat rigid. These are like if someone sneezed on them they’d fall apart. I’m just irked that they were $15 for price and shipping and are that fragile.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
In re-reading your post, I guess I too would begin to suspect the mantles.  Definitely try another brand, but also see if you can get the pressure down more before opening the valve.  Easy to do, just let the torch run a bit longer.   An expert should be along shortly that can help.  I don't have an Aida, but a cheap clone.  I don't know how many mantles you got for $15, but if they aren't going to work, they were too much at any price.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
MYN
Preheat a little longer to ensure that the kerosene is properly vaporized as it enters the mixing chamber. Otherwise, you could get a liquid jet punching through the mantle, especially if the holes on the ceramic burner cap are somewhat 'too large' or compromized.
A lower pressure(about 0.5 -0.75bar) when you lower the pricker/open the foot valve for the fuel release. Gradually pump it up when the lantern is lit.
This way, the fuel-air surge would be less and the risk of damaging the mantles is reduced.
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
In re-reading your post, I guess I too would begin to suspect the mantles.  Definitely try another brand, but also see if you can get the pressure down more before opening the valve.  Easy to do, just let the torch run a bit longer.   An expert should be along shortly that can help.  I don't have an Aida, but a cheap clone.  I don't know how many mantles you got for $15, but if they aren't going to work, they were too much at any price.


I’ll ease up on the pressure. Only have one left so I’ll tread lightly with it. I didn’t want to throw the manufacturer under the bus on the part of user error. Thank you for your input 👍🏻
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
MYN wrote:
Preheat a little longer to ensure that the kerosene is properly vaporized as it enters the mixing chamber. Otherwise, you could get a liquid jet punching through the mantle, especially if the holes on the ceramic burner cap are somewhat 'too large' or compromized.
A lower pressure(about 0.5 -0.75bar) when you lower the pricker/open the foot valve for the fuel release. Gradually pump it up when the lantern is lit.
This way, the fuel-air surge would be less and the risk of damaging the mantles is reduced.


That makes sense. I can see how that is occurring. I try to follow the procedures mentioned on a restoration thread that had a link in it. I’ll try to ease up on pressure and preheat longer. When the hole forms in the mantle, I see it beginning to happen but no flame shoots out of it. Everything fills in nicely then- poof. I’ll still ease up on pressure and being more patient.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
bluepen61
Are you using CF or Kerosene? Use Kerosene.

I always pump mine up to 2; then briefly open and close the fuel valve; then light the torch and let it heat the burner. You will note the kerosene vaporizing the residual kerosene as the mantles will glow a little. Then I open the fuel valve to full and let it burn. I close the valve quickly if it hasn't warmed up enough. When it is finally running, I turn off the torch pre-heater. All the while you have to watch the pressure to keep the torch going.

I never use CF in my Aida 1500.

I have only seen popping like that when one of the burner cap screens melted/dissolved/rusted away in a Coleman 290. Added a new screen and it returned back to proper working order.

I hope this helps.
John L. Kemmis ICCC #703
Bernz Appreciation Club #007
I collect the Coleman 290 series
and the usual unusual ones.
Quote
Smudge
I prefer Peerless 111 mantels on my 500cp P-max's. I like them because they burn-in larger, are easy to tie on, and are durable.
"If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts,
also happens to the man. Whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth.” - Chief Seattle

ICCC # 1726  -  Bernz0matiC Appreciation Club #057
Quote
MYN
Are you sure the mantles you had were from Britelyt/Petromax?
I've experienced using some unlabelled ones from an unknown source which were completely crap. They would just crumble away from the slightest jolts on the lantern and does not light up at all like the usual mantles. I think they could have been from some bad batch or made of totally untreated rayon, possibly not even impregnated with any Thorium or Yttrium compounds.
Quote
Jdlsc
I'll second the preheater cup recommendation.  You can get the cup, bottle and a funnel for $12.99 from Britelyt and it screws right in.  It won't take you more than 5 minutes to install.  I was entranced by the preheater torch initially, and it is really cool and impressive to show the guys, but an alcohol preheat is much less work and less risk of blowing out a mantle.  I'll burn one, maybe two cups, of alcohol, depending on how cold it is, with the valve closed and the fuel filler screw open (no pressure).  When the preheat is finishing I'll open the valve, close the filler cap screw and start pumping.  It will gradually get brighter as pressure builds.  It also requires a lot less pumping as the torch requires you to keep pumping to maintain pressure while it's burning.

I know this isn't as fun as watching and hearing the torch; that was the allure that drew me to an Aida/Petromax, but it gets old.  Or maybe I'm just getting old.  :-)  These suckers really require a lot of pumping when your used to Coleman lanterns.


John, South Carolina

Looking for 7/69 Lanterns or Stoves
Quote
pateco
I have been using some 500cp generic E-bay ones. Bulk lot came E-packet from China in an unmarked bag. They seem to be quite durable. but I have not done a torch lighting with them, as I hate having to pump this thing up. I have been using the preheat cup.
2018-11-18 171000.jpg 

They end up sort of ball shaped after burning in,

2018-12-08 12-1000.jpg 

And burn quite brightly.
2018-12-03 191-1000.jpg
Life is a Beach

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #049
Quote
mnhogrider
Dan (dday) was selling the good “superior quality” Petromax 500 CP mantles awhile back. PM him. I think he has (or had) a pretty good supply.

Steve
ICCC Member #1396 
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #017
Mack, Cat and Cadillac.
Quote
holliswood
Thanks for the information everyone. All of you have been a big help.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
MYN wrote:
Are you sure the mantles you had were from Britelyt/Petromax?
I've experienced using some unlabelled ones from an unknown source which were completely crap. They would just crumble away from the slightest jolts on the lantern and does not light up at all like the usual mantles. I think they could have been from some bad batch or made of totally untreated rayon, possibly not even impregnated with any Thorium or Yttrium compounds.


I purchased them off Am....... and that’s what they were represented as. The packaging on the image wasn’t what I received in the mail. The mantles looked the same.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
Smudge wrote:
I prefer Peerless 111 mantels on my 500cp P-max's. I like them because they burn-in larger, are easy to tie on, and are durable.


After I pay off a debt, I’m going to try these and some 24a’s. Always a reason to try something new. If those don’t work for me I’ll get the preheater cup.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
bluepen61 wrote:
Are you using CF or Kerosene? Use Kerosene.

I always pump mine up to 2; then briefly open and close the fuel valve; then light the torch and let it heat the burner. You will note the kerosene vaporizing the residual kerosene as the mantles will glow a little. Then I open the fuel valve to full and let it burn. I close the valve quickly if it hasn't warmed up enough. When it is finally running, I turn off the torch pre-heater. All the while you have to watch the pressure to keep the torch going.

I never use CF in my Aida 1500.

I have only seen popping like that when one of the burner cap screens melted/dissolved/rusted away in a Coleman 290. Added a new screen and it returned back to proper working order.

I hope this helps.


I’m using the kerosene. It’s the only kerosene lantern I have as of now. The ceramic burner cap appears to be in good shape. No cracks that I can see. I wasn’t aware these had burner screens.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
pateco
I just went back through my sales history, and the 500cp ones I'm using were from Amazon (prime) not E-bay/

10 Pieces Universal Pressure Lantern Gas Lantern Mantles Camping Hiking Kerosene Lamp Mantles Spare Parts $6.99



51d3xvBqs-L._SL1000_.jpg 

51qEy+Y1TeL._SL1000_.jpg 
Life is a Beach

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #049
Quote
holliswood
pateco wrote:
I just went back through my sales history, and the 500cp ones I'm using were from Amazon (prime) not E-bay/

10 Pieces Universal Pressure Lantern Gas Lantern Mantles Camping Hiking Kerosene Lamp Mantles Spare Parts $6.99



51d3xvBqs-L._SL1000_.jpg 

51qEy+Y1TeL._SL1000_.jpg 


The size in your pictures looks spot on to those I received. The feel of these just seems off to me. Heading out to install the last one I have. Maybe this last one will hold up.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
zoomkat
I get the inexpensive "butterfly" 10cm mantles from China on ebay for testing. They are pretty tough and only break when I bump them fumbling around in the lantern. Below are the mantles I took up a bit and used on a 220 while working on it. The broken mantles caught my interest in how they typically did not fall apart. They also seemed plenty bright for regular use.

butterfly1.jpg 

mantle3.jpg 
Quote
holliswood
They held up structurally it looks like. I’ll do some research on these as well.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
zoomkat wrote:
The broken mantles caught my interest in how they typically did not fall apart.

 
mantle3.jpg 


I can't help but wonder if a paste could be made of those, painted onto a brass or stainless screen, then placed on top of a stove like the 502, would it glow.   







-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
pateco
holliswood wrote:
They held up structurally it looks like. I’ll do some research on these as well.


When I pulled the egret mantles I was testing off of my 220 , they were very robust as well.

Egret 1.jpg 

Round U 4.jpg 
Life is a Beach

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #049
Quote
MYN
JimL wrote:


I can't help but wonder if a paste could be made of those, painted onto a brass or stainless screen, then placed on top of a stove like the 502, would it glow.   







Nope, they wouldn't glow that way. A paste could be made out of them, nevertheless.
Quote
MYN
zoomkat wrote:
I get the inexpensive "butterfly" 10cm mantles from China on ebay for testing. They are pretty tough and only break when I bump them fumbling around in the lantern. Below are the mantles I took up a bit and used on a 220 while working on it. The broken mantles caught my interest in how they typically did not fall apart. They also seemed plenty bright for regular use.

butterfly1.jpg 

mantle3.jpg 

From the way the mantles broke off, its normally related to :
1. The way you tied the mantles to the ceramic burner.
2. Too strong a side-flame jet from the burner cap(holes are to angled towards the side rim of the ceramic cap).
3. A sudden surge of fuel-air jet, particularly during startups at high pressures.
4. Or simply, due to physical damage from jolts and bumps.
Quote
holliswood
Pateco, I’m hoping in the next two to three weeks to get some different mantles from members here by posting in the classified section. A member above said to check with them and I’ll do that to. I can do OCP, Ama...., and money orders here. Had a final bad experience on the evilbay and I’m done with that outlet. I’m looking to get some Peerless, Superior Quality Petromax mantles, Butterfly, and the Egrets if they’re available in 500cp.

I put on my last mantle, did the burn in. Let cool for several hours. Low pressure torch burn in with no damage. Came back later, low pressure torch preheat, low pressure start, it lit beautifully for 4 seconds and then slow blowout in the bottom of mantle. I’ll try some different mantles before buying a new ceramic burner. Burner looked good and no visual cracks or blockage.

I’m just convinced it’s the mantles. The only other thing that has ever ran through $15 this fast in my life is beer, liquor, and cigarettes. At least there used to be some benefits with those other than watching $1.50+\- per mantle just go to nothing. Also figured out that a match booklet flap is pretty close to 1mm. The needle is just a tic below that measurement so that is adjusted properly according to the rebuild instructions.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
MYN
What is the gap distance between the jet and the J-mixing tube distance, Hollis?
Other than its importance in fuel-air adjustments, I've also (sometimes) increased the distance greater than the nominal value of 14.2mm to create a little more 'drag' for air and in some ways, able to reduce slightly, the velocity of the surging front of the fuel-air mix as it enters the burner and mantle. This creates a shorter flame inside the mantle, and thus less likely to damage the mantles. This is particularly apparent in cases when the lantern is having a slightly worn jet, which would eject a greater amount of fuel with the same operating pressures conpared to a new jet.
Quote
holliswood
MYN wrote:
What is the gap distance between the jet and the J-mixing tube distance, Hollis?
Other than its importance in fuel-air adjustments, I've also (sometimes) increased the distance greater than the nominal value of 14.2mm to create a little more 'drag' for air and in some ways, able to reduce slightly, the velocity of the surging front of the fuel-air mix as it enters the burner and mantle. This creates a shorter flame inside the mantle, and thus less likely to damage the mantles.


I’d assume that it’s the 14.2mm. The first thing I purchased was the tool kit. I’d been under the impression it was adjusted properly. I’ll find a ruler and make a 14.2mm square that I can set in there to make darn sure it’s correct. Glad you brought that up! From fixing small lawn equipment engines I should’ve double checked that with a actual measurement instead of assuming the gauge was 100% correct.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
mikew
holliswood wrote:


I’d assume that it’s the 14.2mm. The first thing I purchased was the tool kit. I’d been under the impression it was adjusted properly. I’ll find a ruler and make a 14.2mm square that I can set in there to make darn sure it’s correct. Glad you brought that up! From fixing small lawn equipment engines I should’ve double checked that with a actual measurement instead of assuming the gauge was 100% correct.


On my Pmax 829, I used a 9/16 bolt head to set the clearance, which is about 14.29mm.
Mike
"... at evening time, it shall be light." Zechariah 14:7

Slant Saver #05; Milspec Ops 0045
Quote
JimL
Letting the mantle cool a minute or two should be plenty.  While the 14mm distance is ideal, it isn't that critical.  I found mine had dropped to around 8mm once.  It wasn't ideal, but the lantern still ran.  Because it can and often changes from running, it's good to check it on a regular basis.  If the ceramic burner is intact and not blown out, it should be fine also.  If you felt the need to replace it, St. Paul's Mercantile has them for under $3.  Or, you could go to the bay and spend big $. 

You should not be  blowing mantles apart like this.  I suspect the mantles, assuming you're using the same ones.  

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
mikew wrote:


On my Pmax 829, I used a 9/16 bolt head to set the clearance, which is about 14.29mm.


Going to check that now. Been fixing my sons car.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Letting the mantle cool a minute or two should be plenty.  While the 14mm distance is ideal, it isn't that critical.  I found mine had dropped to around 8mm once.  It wasn't ideal, but the lantern still ran.  Because it can and often changes from running, it's good to check it on a regular basis.  If the ceramic burner is intact and not blown out, it should be fine also.  If you felt the need to replace it, St. Paul's Mercantile has them for under $3.  Or, you could go to the bay and spend big $. 

You should not be  blowing mantles apart like this.  I suspect the mantles, assuming you're using the same ones.  


I’m suspecting the mantles to. I’m currently out of funds at the moment for new mantles, so it’ll be a couple of weeks before I can report back on this issue. Will let everyone know when I have more to report.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
I’ve been tying them where the finger is pointing as well Click image for larger version - Name: C5F077A0-C3C2-4D10-B932-95F46954BAEC.jpeg, Views: 271, Size: 180.91 KB
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Yeah, that's the place to tie it.  Does the bottom of the burner look similar to this?

828-Nozz.jpg   

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Yeah, that's the place to tie it.  Does the bottom of the burner look similar to this?

828-Nozz.jpg   


Yes just discolored from use. I did recheck the gap and it’s spot on. Couldn’t be any more exact.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Hollis,

PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a few mantles.  I suspect your lantern is just fine and that it's the mantles.  Let's see if we can prove it out.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Hollis,

PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a few mantles.  I suspect your lantern is just fine and that it's the mantles.  Let's see if we can prove it out.


That’s very kind of you. I appreciate the kind gesture.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Got your PM and have three mantles in an envelope ready to go.  Two will be Petromax and one will be a Peerless 24-A.  One of the Petromax will just state Petromax on the package, and the other will also state Superior Quality.  The latter really is superior quality.  The unnamed Petromax mantle isn't a very good mantle due to not knowing how much it'll shrink or what shape it will take.  They work, but are inconsistent.   The superior quality will be a nice size and have a bulbous shape.  Both of the Petromax mantles are thorium, so provide your own welding goggles.  😉 

I suggest trying the non-superior Petromax as your first 'test' mantle.  If it works without blowing apart, you can leave it on and use it, saving the others. 

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
Will do JimL. If you ever need some Peerless 2C-HG mantles I have a 4pk with your name on em 👍🏻
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
Since I have forgotten to post a picture of the only one I got to work here it is Click image for larger version - Name: 3B680E3F-960B-4F34-9976-61A48AC4AB1D.jpeg, Views: 251, Size: 284.35 KB Click image for larger version - Name: 69C73441-F25C-46F3-8A8E-A228E9A6C930.jpeg, Views: 247, Size: 335.92 KB Click image for larger version - Name: 662E9BD5-58CE-42C0-9B6E-AD039CDC662F.jpeg, Views: 250, Size: 355.77 KB
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Too bad the mantle didn't survive.  But if it did, you wouldn't know about the rest until you really wanted to use the lantern and needed one, such as on a trip.

You have an Aida, which enjoys a very good reputation, and you've done all the right things, so my money is on the mantles working just fine for you.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Too bad the mantle didn't survive.  But if it did, you wouldn't know about the rest until you really wanted to use the lantern and needed one, such as on a trip.

You have an Aida, which enjoys a very good reputation, and you've done all the right things, so my money is on the mantles working just fine for you.


Looking forward to putting the light to it 😎
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
MYN
Good luck Hollis. If all everything goes well, it'll work just fine. One of your earlier mantles worked anyway.
Please remember to post the results here. Looking forward to see that.
Quote
holliswood
MYN wrote:
Good luck Hollis. If all everything goes well, it'll work just fine. One of your earlier mantles worked anyway.
Please remember to post the results here. Looking forward to see that.


Will do. I’m enjoying this forum, the members here, and everything gpa.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
Getting ready to burn in a mantle. One last question before attempting to light. Would it be a good idea to adjust the baffle in the J-tube to closed or almost closed? Baffle or butterfly, not sure of the correct wording on that part.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Not a concern for lighting.  Consider that for fine tuning once you get it lit.  There is a name for that, but I don't recall it at the moment.


-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
holliswood
JimL wrote:
Not a concern for lighting.  Consider that for fine tuning once you get it lit.  There is a name for that, but I don't recall it at the moment.



Excellent. I’m out to burn one in now.
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
holliswood
Decided to try the Peerless 24-A 500cp mantle first that JimL sent to me. As it is cold to me and my fingers, my thoughts were the Peerless would be more forgiving to my half numb fingers. Burnt mantle in with a long handed match. Waited around 10 minutes for everything to settle in. Used the preheater torch for two minutes. Slowly opened the valve and....... success!!! No holes or blowouts. Pumped up to 2.5atm. She purring like a kitten 👍🏻 Thanks to everyone who helped get my lantern running perfectly!! You all are the finest group of people that I’ve had the privilege to be apart of. Click image for larger version - Name: 3984699A-0856-4D7B-A8E7-C80D17A9D50E.jpeg, Views: 195, Size: 275.09 KB Click image for larger version - Name: D0FBBABD-E70F-4B33-A156-F1E73AB5E61B.jpeg, Views: 196, Size: 270.72 KB Click image for larger version - Name: C5E43381-CC81-4818-9F66-6EF426378734.jpeg, Views: 196, Size: 213.20 KB
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Quote
JimL
Excellent news.  Congrats!

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
JimL
BTW, if you haven't, you can now adjdust that baffle thingie, while the lantern is running, for max performance/brightness.

-Jim

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Quote
Welcome to the Coleman Collectors Forum, an international forum of Coleman enthusiast and collectors, as such people from all over the world come here to read about Coleman collecting, repair, and to meet and make friends. The pages contained here are intended for the use of amateur collectors and people interested in Coleman collecting, restoration and repair as a hobby. It goes without saying to refrain from political posts, personal attacks and inflammatory posts.

Please note, all postings are the personal opinions of the members posting, the owner, administrators and moderators of the forum do not warrant the accuracy of posted information or endorse the safety of such.