200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

outlawmws
I have this candle stove I built many years ago and a few years ago converted it to a small home built alcohol lamp that barely fit (actually I had to open the doorway a bit to make it fit...)  

With the new ban on DNA,  I'm of course looking for an alternative fuel.  I'm hoping that deodorized kero, with its higher heat value, will work and possibly burn longer.  I need to test and make sure its not going to get out of control, in any way.  Even Lamp oil would be an option...

I dug the thing out of the tent trailer (it was in the LAST box I pulled out...) and this is it.  It's been on the forum before, so you may recognize it:

Candle Stove.jpg 

And the business end:  it worked perfectly on DNA as long as I didn't over fill, as the heat would expand the fuel and it would leak all over and catch fire.  It took a little to figure out it was literally siphoning out the wick tube!  I should add a tiny vent hole to the cap...  and STILL not overfill...

Lamp.jpg 

So I didn't follow my instincts.  and I should have...

I filled it and was careful to NOT over fill.   I let it go for a bit of time on the stove, safely on an aluminum tray. 

It was behaving so I put it in the stove.  It was still on the tray - darn good thing!

Ten minutes later I'm getting my laser thermometer, and the dang burner is in flames all across the top!

I grabbed a small box of Baking soda and splashed that into it twice.  Fire out!

an oops!.jpg 
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


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outlawmws
Battle damage:
This ain't right:
This aint right.jpg 

This ain't right at all!:

This aint right at all.jpg 

Not good!  the solder melted!
baddd.jpg 

The expansion made it into a low pressure GPA long enough to open the seam!

Yes that's light, showing through!

GPA oops.jpg 


So first up is repair/re-solder the can back together.

Next is to sort our how much expansion the Lamp oil/kero has,

and lastly, sort out a safe vent for this can!
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


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JimL
Are you suggesting that flammable liquids and open flame can lead to unintended consequences?

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
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outlawmws
Yessir!   [afi_DoNotSetYour-1]
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


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D421
Looks like it self vented.
Everyone likes the dog catcher...until they catch your dog.
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macwacs
I would silver solder it.
RMW
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zoomkat
You may want to skip the DIY can and go with the screw cap chaffing fuel cans like below. With the screw cap you can shut it down and save the unused fuel, and the cap should prevent leakage when not in use. I suspect these cans can be refilled when needed.

https://www.samsclub.com/p/bakers-chefs-safe-heat-12-pk/173308
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Vintageish
Ron Brown's series on non electric lighting had a book on fuels that is interesting.
(I'm not plugging for Ron , but if a mod objects to the mention please edit or delete.. Just giving credit where do and not claiming it's my finding.)

Anyways , odorless mineral spirits (only mineral spirits , not chemical blends of ingredients including mineral spirits in part) have been used for oil lamps.
Not sure Cali's opinion and regulations regarding mineral spirits , it's Cali....But most anywhere else you'd have the option of testing your burner/wick with such. AFTER researching potential results. L.o.l..

Flammable vs combustible matters in a fuels application ,and safety. For most wickies , combustible is the order. Flammable would be (I'll say it is ) a no no.
Yes that contrasts with alcohol lamps. But such lamps are  designed /built for using alcohol. Wick size , fount maximum safe fill level to allow for expansion, vent (if any) ,pressure/flow from expansion , all factor.

Denatured alcohols flash point is 55 degrees F. (research to confirm..). The flashpoint of mineral spirits is more like 105F. (Edited to correct my  flashpoint of mineral spirits error , thanks JimL.).
Big difference if running a wick.
With alcohols expansion with increasing temps (even holding your metal container for your lamp can cause alcohol inside it to expand..) half full might be too full to start. Some alcohol lamps are at maximum full at half the capacity of their reservoir.
Purty colors. Well , cept'n maybe that brown when it's on fire...
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Gunhippie
My experience burning mineral spirits--100%--in wickies is DON'T. The lower flash point and higher vapor pressure of mineral spirits vs. kerosene means the lantern will run away and it's almost impossible to put it out. Nearly burned my nice little SuperBaby up that way.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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hikerduane
My Trail Designs 12-10 dna stove is designed to work in a enclosed, hot environment with the Caldera Cone as the windscreen/pot support.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
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Vintageish
Gunhippie wrote:
My experience burning mineral spirits--100%--in wickies is DON'T. The lower flash point and higher vapor pressure of mineral spirits vs. kerosene means the lantern will run away and it's almost impossible to put it out. Nearly burned my nice little SuperBaby up that way.


Reads like a cautious mineral spirit experiment best reserved for a center draft lamp...
Purty colors. Well , cept'n maybe that brown when it's on fire...
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Hot Diggity
If you really want to make it safe you could run it on olive oil.  Takes a bit to get it lit, but it's odorless, makes almost no smoke, and is self-extinguishing if you spill it.  I ran it in a Betty lamp since it was safe if I stumbled or fumbled it in camp.  Easier to find than whale oil too.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #12
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #510
Coleman Slant Saver #510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker, Wickie, Lamp loon


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JimL
@Vintageish

>>The flashpoint of mineral spirits is more like 335F.

Where did you see that?  I just looked one up and the flash point for mineral spirits was 105F.    That sounds more like peanut oil with its 333F flash point.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
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Vintageish
JimL wrote:
@Vintageish

>>The flashpoint of mineral spirits is more like 335F.

Where did you see that?  I just looked one up and the flash point for mineral spirits was 105F.    That sounds more like peanut oil with its 333F flash point.


Oh crap! You're right. Thanks for the correction.
It's boiling point is closer to 335F.  And it's flash point  around 105F.
Checked my browser history and  Frank Duncan's is a  335F re-encountered.   https://www.quora.com/Why-is-mineral-oil-flammable#:~:text=Mineral%20oil%20is%20NOT%20flammable,mineral%20oil%20is%20around%20335F.

Which highly suggests I entered mineral OIL , vs , mineral SPIRITS while lamp oil was on my mind.
(I'll see if I can edit that post.)




Purty colors. Well , cept'n maybe that brown when it's on fire...
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outlawmws
So I think I know what's driving this fountain of fuel...   This also ties in with how some stoves "self pressurize"

The thermal expansion coefficient of Kero is negligible  maybe 3 to 4% depending on the temps

The thermal expansion coefficient of air on the other hand is 20 to 30%!

So with that much pressure, the wick itself is siphoning up the fuel!  I was assuming the kero was expanding and catching the bottom of the tube,  I can also remember making sure the cap was not screwed down tight and that also prevented the DNA from siphoning.   So even a pinhole in the cap should release the pressure and prevent any appreciable siphoning up the wick.  

This wick has a tight weave outer shell, and I'd bet that wet its like a tube under low pressure.  
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


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JimL
@Vintageish

I'd be very suspect of anything published on Quora.  I don't know how I originally got on their distribution, but most of the questions are quite moronic.  Like several times per week seeing the same stupid questions like "I bought a disposable lighter from Walmart and it's now out of fuel.  Will Walmart allow me to return it?"  If you need to ask a question like this of strangers on the internet rather than just calling or dropping into a store to find out first hand, there's no help for you.  It was not  long after seeing the same questions over and over that I unsubscribed.  Then they started sending me invites to join their team to review questions and answers.  I ignored them and they finally went away.  Some answers may be valid, but for anything serious, I would research elsewhere.  I'll get off the soapbox now.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
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Hot Diggity
Just out of curiosity I looked up the flash point for olive oil.  437F.

For historical wick lamp users, whale oil has a flash point of 446F.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #12
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #510
Coleman Slant Saver #510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker, Wickie, Lamp loon


Quote
Vintageish
JimL wrote:
@Vintageish

I'd be very suspect of anything published on Quora.  I don't know how I originally got on their distribution, but most of the questions are quite moronic.  Like several times per week seeing the same stupid questions like "I bought a disposable lighter from Walmart and it's now out of fuel.  Will Walmart allow me to return it?"  If you need to ask a question like this of strangers on the internet rather than just calling or dropping into a store to find out first hand, there's no help for you.  It was not  long after seeing the same questions over and over that I unsubscribed.  Then they started sending me invites to join their team to review questions and answers.  I ignored them and they finally went away.  Some answers may be valid, but for anything serious, I would research elsewhere.  I'll get off the soapbox now.


Hey , soap away when I'm in the wrong!  You caught me misinforming about a fuel. That's a good thing.

I agree on Quora not being an assurance of accuracy , but that does not justify my error of mineral "oil's" flashpoint being used in place of mineral "spirits". 
Purty colors. Well , cept'n maybe that brown when it's on fire...
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JimL
I wasn't commenting on the flash point again, that was just a little mistake that was caught.  I was just warning you about Quora if you weren't that familiar with them.  I did occasionally see intelligent questions and answers there, but felt they were too few and far inbetween.  I wouldn't know if they got better because I haven't been on there in months.  I don't even have an idea what company gave them my email to begin with.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
Quote
outlawmws
I got sucked in to Quara for a few weeks.  it can be amusing but its a time waster for sure.  Marginally better than watching up to 30 min of commercials to see maybe 30 min of show...  I also un-subed...
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


Quote
Vintageish
JimL wrote:
I wasn't commenting on the flash point again, that was just a little mistake that was caught.  I was just warning you about Quora if you weren't that familiar with them.  I did occasionally see intelligent questions and answers there, but felt they were too few and far inbetween.  I wouldn't know if they got better because I haven't been on there in months.  I don't even have an idea what company gave them my email to begin with.

I'm covered. Don't have a subscription , or familiarity with Quora. And a newfound reason to skip past it when browsing...
Purty colors. Well , cept'n maybe that brown when it's on fire...
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GeraldJP
Ban on DNA(shaking my head), I was reading that the ban on VOC emission sources in CA didn't specify which sources should be regulated, therefore manufacturers and stakeholders determined that DNA was among the least expensive to eliminate vs. other contenders. Seems stupid to me... 
Gerald

"If we are to have any hope for the future, those who have lanterns must pass them on to others." - Plato
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JimL
I wish I could find the list I saw earlier this year that showed products to be reviewed this year.  Once I saw that hair shampoo was going to be reviewed for a ban, I understood why is seems all products contain the California warning.  It's likely not worth the risk accidentally omitting an ingredient on the list, and is easier to just include the warning and be done with it.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?
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GeraldJP
Pancho posted this in another thread, might be worth a try.
Gerald

"If we are to have any hope for the future, those who have lanterns must pass them on to others." - Plato
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Rustytank
Have you tried Pure grain alcohol from the liquor store? 190 proof variant is what you seek. Or is that banned in California too?
[image] 
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
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Gunhippie
I had a "that's not supposed to be on fire" moment yesterday. I didn't notice that a coworker had moved a box of rags under my tri-stand when doing some MIG welding. I'm welding away happily when I notice a very strong smell of smoke. Stop welding, tip the helmet up, and there's a box of flaming rags between my feet! Wasted a beer putting it out and had to throw the charred, beer-soaked rags in the dumpster.

Lesson learned--I'm not in control of my shop, so check for flammables before welding or grinding!
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
Quote
outlawmws
Been there done that Timm!  Usually its loose paper towels, but same effect!  And usually its my fault...
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


Quote
Gunhippie
Usually for me, it's a wad of steel wool left on the bench while I'm grinding. Good thing I always keep an open bottle of beer handy, as it's a great fire extinguisher!

Actually, I usually use my spray bottle of soapy water leak finder....
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
Quote
outlawmws
Welding fires of this type, I just throw on the ground and stomp on.  

It's the oil and grease fires on the parts I'm welding that get entertaining!  Slapping at them with the welding gloves usually works...
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


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