200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

dbhost
With the support forum talk about the Flame King 1lb refillable cylinders, I have been thinking over the pros, and cons of the various fuel choices, which in turn reflects upon our appliance choices, or vise versa...

I personally have a myriad of appliances, not all of the model #s are currently known, but they are...

Liquid Fuel.
1985 Coleman 425F stove, white gas only officially, but can in a pinch use RUG. Generator will get dirty / clog faster wtih RUG than a dual fuel. 
2005 Coleman 424 stove. Dual fuel, white gas / RUG. Generator will clog faster with RUG, but not as fast as the 425. 
1969 Coleman 511A 5000 BTU catalytic heater. White Gas only.
1983 Coleman 513B 5000 BTU catalytic heater. White Gas only
1969 Coleman 515 5000-8000 adjustable temp catalytic heater. White Gas only.
1983 Coleman 518B 3000 BTU catalytic heater. White gas only.
2005 Coleman premium dual fuel double mantle lanterns. White Gas or RUG. Same issues as stoves.
1991(?) MSR Whisperlite

Advantages of liquid fuel, based on white gas. Far less expensive to operate than propane, or isobutane, much wider range of operability temps, and much broader availability of fuel for the stoves and lanterns outside of the U.S. and Canada. (RUG). No hazardous waste in the form of disposable fuel cylinders, the metal or plastic fuel cans can be easily recycled. Parts availability for the appliances seems to be stronger. Compared to propane connected to a bulk tank, multiple appliances can use the same main fuel supply without being tethered by hoses. 

Disadvantages of liquid fuel. White gas is extremely difficult, if not impossible to find outside of the U.S. / Canada, so travel to Mexico with it can be tough. Appliances require more interaction to operate such as pumping, priming, or pre heating. More maintenance required to maintain proper operation. Spilled fuel is hard to get out of fabrics, so spilled white gas on a tent for example can make that tent stink like fuel for years, if not ruin it. Fuel leakage if not caught can cause an out of control appliance fire. Proper startup / inspection procedure should always be followed.


Propane.
2018 Coleman Classic 2 burner propane camp stove.
2005 Brinkmann 2 burner stainless steel camp stove. 
1992 Coleman 5152C700 2 mantle propane lantern.
1980 Century single burner bottle top stove.
2007 Zodi Zip hot shower.
2005 Mr. Heater Portable Buddy heater. (R.I.P.)

Advantages of propane.
Appliances for the most part are simple plug and play. Just screw in the fuel source, make sure there are no leaks, turn a valve and light.
Appliances tend to be smaller, and much newer and more space and weight efficient designs.
In the case of the heater, tend to have modern safety features such as tipover protection, and low oxygen shutoff that white gas appliances just don't have.
1lb propane cylinders are easy to find at just about any grocery store, or gas station. It is the rare retailer that does not carry them.
Bulk tanks, with a distribution tree and hoses, eliminate the environmental impact of 1lb cylinders, and allow multiple appliances to be run off of one fuel supply.

Disadvantages. 
Bulk fuel in the 20lb cylinder is heavy, and very space consuming compared to say 2 gallons of camp fuel.
Ignited fuel leakage can result in a considerably more violent fire and potential explosion when compared to white gas. Disposable 1lb cylinders when "empty" are never truly empty and are considered hazardous waste. 
1lb cylinders can not be legally refilled and trasnported. Refiling is to the best of my knowledge legal, transporting the refilled cylinders is however very much illegal and carries steep penalties. The 1lb cylinders of propane are stupid expensive compared to liquid fuels. Propane appliances tend toward the use of far more plastics that are not fully UV stable and disintigrate with use outdoors, or even storage in heat like a Texas garage. 

Butane / Propane mix.
2005 Coleman Exponent F1 Ultralight canister stove.
2005 Coleman Exponent F1 Light canister lantern.

Advantages of butane / propane mix appliances. 
Crazy light. For a weeks trip cooking 3 meals a day and providing 3 hours / night light, I use only 2 canisters. The appliances themselves if I recall correctly are less than 2oz each. The rest of the advantages are the same as propane excluding there is no means of attaching to bulk fuel. There are the larger tabletop ones that use the spray paint can size canisters, they are lighter than a 2 burner propane stove, but otherwise kind of the same.

Disadvantages of Butane / Propane mix appliances. 
More or less the same as propane, excluding the issues of bulk / weight of the bulk tanks and hoses. And the fuel cost of this is even higher typically than propane.

Biomass.
2 2017 iRegro wood gas stoves.

Advantages.
Fuel available pretty much anywhere wood grows.  No leakage problems, when used properly burns fuel down to a fine ash.

Disadvantages. 
Much more difficult to use than any other method, and potentially impossible to use when wet. Restricted from use during burn bans. Very few avaialble relevant appliances. No heaters, no lanterns etc... 

So there's my input on the subject. What's yours?
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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hikerduane
Forgot denatured alcohol.  More expensive than other fuels except wood, but stoves for backpacking using DNA are silly light and only require less than a oz. of fuel to boil some water for a meal.  Container for DNA is also light, can use a size only required for trip length.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
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JimL
Careful with the word 'Isobutane'.  It's not butane as we know it, and likely to be expensive compared to the butane/propane mix canisters.   Nowhere near as common at the butane/propane cartridges such as from Coleman.

Personally, I don't care about the pros and cons of any of my stoves.  I just grab one that I want to use when I do.  Sometimes I'll use a 500 like today, a 502, an Optimus 99 clone, Svea 123 (the preceeding are all CF) or one of my cheap Chinese gas burners that are designed for the butane/propane canisters which I refill with the ultra cheap butane cans.  Where it makes a difference is if you're hiking/backpacking and need to keep weight down.  Another consideration is the temperature.  If you're going to be out when it's 30 degrees or less, don't expect butane to do anything for you since it may not even come out of the container.  I was under the impression that the butane/propane mix canisters solved this, but from people using these things in really cold weather, they don't work very well either, and in some cases, no better than straight butane.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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dbhost
JimL wrote:
Careful with the word 'Isobutane'.  It's not butane as we know it, and likely to be expensive compared to the butane/propane mix canisters.   Nowhere near as common at the butane/propane cartridges such as from Coleman.

Personally, I don't care about the pros and cons of any of my stoves.  I just grab one that I want to use when I do.  Sometimes I'll use a 500 like today, a 502, an Optimus 99 clone, Svea 123 (the preceeding are all CF) or one of my cheap Chinese gas burners that are designed for the butane/propane canisters which I refill with the ultra cheap butane cans.  Where it makes a difference is if you're hiking/backpacking and need to keep weight down.  Another consideration is the temperature.  If you're going to be out when it's 30 degrees or less, don't expect butane to do anything for you since it may not even come out of the container.  I was under the impression that the butane/propane mix canisters solved this, but from people using these things in really cold weather, they don't work very well either, and in some cases, no better than straight butane.


Hmmm. I have always heard the Butane / Propane mix called Isobutane. Is that wrong?

Yes, straight butane tends to not work at cold temps, butane / propane mix is slightly better, but still not great. My first experience with the stuff was at Crater Lake in 2005 I think it was. It snowed on us overnight, and my stove, food, and fuel were in the bear box in the campground. I had to stuff the canister in my sleeping bag with me for about a half hour to get it to work. And considering that the fuel leaving the canister has a venturi effect radically dropping the temps, it didn't last long before it stopped again...

However that same stove worked flawlessly beach camping out of my old Jeep. Those things don't hold much in the way of cargo when you have 4 people in them! So yeah we were packed with backpacking gear.

The big thing is to make sure your gear matches where you are going, and what you are doing. 
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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JimL
>>Hmmm. I have always heard the Butane / Propane mix called Isobutane. Is that wrong?

It may be called that, but that would not be correct.  Isobutane is made from butane.  If I'm understanding correctly, butane has a boiling point of 31 degrees, whereas isobutane's boiling point is 11 degrees, making isobutane suitable for even colder weather than butane, but still nowhere near as low as propane.  Regardless, if I'm going to use a stove in cold weather, it's going to be a CF stove.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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zoomkat
Below is a butane-propane mix chart. Sam's club has the 8 oz. butane cans in a four pack for ~$5.50 (large Asian stores are similar), which is more economical than using the #1 propane bottles (unless you refill).   

butane mix1.jpg 
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dbhost
zoomkat wrote:
Below is a butane-propane mix chart. Sam's club has the 8 oz. butane cans in a four pack for ~$5.50 (large Asian stores are similar), which is more economical than using the #1 propane bottles (unless you refill).   

butane mix1.jpg 


That chart scares the crud out of me as I store my propane bottles and 20lb cylinder in my shed, here in Texas, where outside temps are often about or over 100 deg F.
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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zoomkat
"That chart scares the crud out of me as I store my propane bottles and 20lb cylinder in my shed, here in Texas, where outside temps are often about or over 100 deg F".               

I think most propane containers are rated for 130 deg. F, and most have some type of pressure relief device.
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Nuiman
I have a Solar cooker and for a few years was a member of Solar Cookers International.  Just thought I'd throw that out there as a type of fuel. (radiation) 

Like the fuels mentioned, I also can sterilize surgical equipment, homogenize water for drinking and cook some fine chicken and ribs plus perfect rice.     The solution comes up every morning.  
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zoomkat
For compact butane camping, I got the below adapter so I can use the inexpensive tall cans of butane instead of the short $$$ camping butane canisters. The small butane lantern/stove burners screw on like they would on the $$$ cans.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Three-leg-Transfer-Head-Adaptor-Nozzle-Bottle-Screw-gate-Camping-Stove-Gear-N3/122209853532?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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JimL
That adapter should work fine unless your stove can't handle the liquid butane.  Mine can't, but admittedly, it's a low end Chinese one and doesn't have a generator.  I just use an adapter to refill the butane/propane canister with straight butane from those Asian canisters.  However, because propane is so much higher pressure than butane, I made sure the canister was completely empty before refilling.  I hate the thought of the butane canister exploding in my hand while attempting to refill.


>>That chart scares the crud out of me as I store my propane bottles and 20lb cylinder in my shed, here in Texas, where outside temps are often about or over 100 deg F.

As stated, the tanks have over pressure relief.  The bottles do too and they work.  Well, as long as you haven't damaged it by pulling on it to refill the bottle.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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hikerduane
The propane will burn off first around 32F, then you are left with butane which needs warmer temps to vaporize.  I've used one of my small stoves that uses the MSR canisters in single digits (creek water was froze over).  Heated water a bit, then dipped the stove with attached canister in the warm(er) water a couple times while bringing it to a boil.  Stream water straight from the source would have worked at the start too.  CF is just so much cheaper than those canisters except butane which I have not moved to.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
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zoomkat
"That adapter should work fine unless your stove can't handle the liquid butane.  Mine can't, but admittedly, it's a low end Chinese one and doesn't have a generator"

Note that these tall butane cans are designed to operate laying on their side. There is a pickup tube that comes from the nozzle and makes a 90 deg. turn to the top edge area of the can. When the can is properly engaged with the adapter, the end of the pickup tube is vertical and is in the gas space of the can. The cans also have some safety features. If the can gets too hot, the material the pickup tube is made of collapses and restricts gas flow. The cans also have pressure relief slots in the upper rim to prevent explosions similar to the ones in the below safety film.



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JimL
That was a very interesting video.  I never would have thought these canisters would have a safety feature like that CRV, but I just looked at one of my cans and see little notches at the rim.  I've got an empty can I need to dispose of, but will now open it up to see exactly what you're referencing about the pickup tube.  I would have thought that with a full can, laying on its side would deliver liquid.  Again, interesting vid.  Thanks for posting that link.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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Gasman64
I only have GPAs that burn CF and kero/paraffin/Jet A (I mostly use Jet A.) I don't give much thought at all about effiency, maximum BTUs, etc, etc.  I just have fun with and enjoy using my lanterns and stoves.  To clarify, I only have CF (naphtha) stoves, so things are pretty simple here.
Steve
ICCC #1012
🍂🍂🍂 Waiting For Autumn🍂🍂🍂
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zoomkat
"but will now open it up to see exactly what you're referencing about the pickup tube"

You can see the pickup tube in the two illustrations at 1:48 in the video.
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Northman49
I noticed a similar label on my butane cans. It is labeled RVR instead of CRV. I assume it is similar or actually the same configuration.
IMG_20190907_091743888__1567863685_31196.jpg 

IMG_20190907_091842533__1567863617_95546.jpg 
She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but I loved her still.

I keep my tools sharp...but my mind sharper!
  Ed
                 ICCC no.1880
                 CANADIAN BLUES Member #023
     
                  Mil-spec ops #1982
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JimL
I didn't notice that in the video before, but now that I see it, I wondered how one would know where that pickup is located in the can.  I grabbed a can and saw that it tells you which side should be up to use.  Interesting.  I bought these cans to refill a butane/propane canister for my Xcursions, and occasional stove use, so never thought of this before.  Thanks for that pointer.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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hikerduane
Coleman Powermax canisters have a line inside that drops to the low point when laying down.  Fuel isn't anything special, stove still looses power in sub freezing temps.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
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zoomkat
"I wondered how one would know where that pickup is located in the can"

I connected a butane can to a small butane stove and marked the top of the can. The can top seems to be maybe 70 deg. counter clock wise from the center line of the notch in the can collar. I would suspect that is the place where the end of the pickup tube would be located. It is the sharpie mark in the below pix.

butane can.jpg   
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JimL
I bet the arrow on this can points to where the fuel pickup is.  🙂

Butane can.jpg 

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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zoomkat
"I bet the arrow on this can points to where the fuel pickup is"

Well, it is on that side of the can. That warning may be there to keep people from installing the can 180 deg. out of alignment in some cases. Twist on connections possibly can be subject to the misalignment as most have two hold down tabs that can fit thru the can collar notch.
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desertdave
The pickup tube is aligned with the notch on the can.  These are meant for gas operation, not liquid operation, so the notch (and pickup) is located up in the appliances designed to use them (there will be a metal tab that engages the notch.)  This is handy to know if you are refilling Lindal valve canisters with butane.
Hot Hot Hot!
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desertdave
hikerduane wrote:
Coleman Powermax canisters have a line inside that drops to the low point when laying down.  Fuel isn't anything special, stove still looses power in sub freezing temps.
Duane


Coleman powermax canisters were the best system developed for propane/butane mix stoves.  They were special for a couple of reasons.  The mixture was 40% propane, which developed greater pressure at low temperatures then the standard 30/70 mixtures of the current crop of canisters.  The drop tube meant the stoves were liquid pickup, which minimizes evaporative cooling of the fuel during use.  Most canister stoves are gas fed, which means the fuel must evaporate before use, significantly depressing the temperature of the remaining fuel as it is being used.  Finally, the canisters were aluminum, so the fuel to canister weight was better than the standard canisters.  It was a well engineerd system that unfortunately failed in the marketplace.  Of course when it gets cold enough, liquid fuel stoves rule.
Hot Hot Hot!
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desertdave
I think I misremembered the fuel percentages.  Current ones are 20/80, the powermax ones were 30/70,
Hot Hot Hot!
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JimL
I found the MSDS for Powermax at OldTownColeman.  It lists Powermax as 35% propane and 65% butane.   I'm not having any luck finding the new canisters labeled 'Performance Blended Fuel'. 

http://www.oldtowncoleman.com/safety/sds-coleman-powermax-fuel.pdf

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
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Coldwaterpaddler
IMO - match the fuel and stove to your activity.  I always take CF stoves backpacking. Either a 400 series single burner or the M-1942 Mod. But then, I also sometimes take a 5" cast iron skillet and fresh eggs with me. We backpack in the Colorado Rockies. What's a couple extra pounds, right? My son did this this last weekend, his pack weighed 50lbs AND he carried a 7lb rifle because we were there for deer hunting above treeline (11,500 feet). 

When I go elk hunting I use CF lanterns in the wall tent, but use a 5lb propane bottle and two burner propane stove for cooking.
Another guy brings a CF two burner to cook bacon outdoors.

I've got a Homestrand alcohol stove of which I'm just getting familiar. And, I've got an Aida kero lantern which I like, too.

I really like to bring 502 stoves (CF) on multi day kayak/canoe river trips. It's the right size for a 9" cast iron skillet plus good fuel capacity while still being relatively small.

A small propane butane stove is great for day hikes on a chilly day with my wife. But, if we're snowshoeing, the M-1942 Mod is perfect.

Whatever works, I say.
Stovie-Steve
"Don't let the weather run your life" - Steve
The Coleman Blues - #95
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fuel brained
I prefer CF to any other fuel. Even at subzero temps you can still cook and light with it. M1942 mod, Coleman 520, 425nl. as far as lanterns I like the 242c early 200a. I use hand sanitizer as a preheat gel with no residue. When you get close to freezing propane, isobutane, butane can not vaporize. 
Pastor Jeff
God said "Let there be light" so He let His Son shine.
SoCal and Lovin' It. Desert Rat Division
US Navy Submarine Cold War Veteran
MilSpec Ops #1960 "Feel the Roar"
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Majicwrench
I grabbed a Olicamp Scorpian III a month or so ago and threw it in my pack for nostalgias sake, it takes modern cartridges, and even though they say "all weather" or something like that, they really work poorly now that I have been using it in high-30s and low 40s.  Need to take it out and put it back on the shelf.
Keith
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dbhost
I prefer CF to any other fuel. Even at subzero temps you can still cook and light with it. M1942 mod, Coleman 520, 425nl. as far as lanterns I like the 242c early 200a. I use hand sanitizer as a preheat gel with no residue. When you get close to freezing propane, isobutane, butane can not vaporize. 


If available, dry, and legally allowable, I honestly prefer cooking over a wood fire, but mostly for the aesthetics of a camp fire...

If the Coleman heaters could be adapted to RUG, I would think I would be happiest. Not that I wouldn't use CF primarily anyway, but I like being able to lean on RUG in a pinch with my dual fuels...

Mind you, I grew up winter camping with a Coleman CF stove, until my Dad got the bright idea to buy a Sears Propane stove because "it was easier to use". It served well during late spring through early fall, but come late fall through early spring, it was more or less useless where we camped...

My first it was mine CF appliance I still have, the early 90s MSR Whisperlite. I actually tried backpacking with a propane bottle and a single burner propane stove that my Dad gave me. While I was in college, I worked as a gas station attendant, and after a weekend that was particularly productive tips wise, I went to Popular Outdoor Outfitters in Tucson and bought my Whisperlite, and fuel bottle which was sold separately. I guess that was in 1990 or 1991. I used it up until I got the 424 in 2005. The 424 has seen me through tons of camping trips, a couple of tropical storms and hurricanes, and more than a few BBQ competitions with friends... 

I will admit though, I like the idea of being able to use as many different fuels as possible. Honestly, if Coleman made a suitcase stove that worked with pretty much anything that is lquid and burns like the MSR XGK-EX does, AND is able to use a propane converter, I would be all over that in a hot second... 

They are all good though, the canisters are easy, and lightweight, but don't work well in the cold. CF works well in the cold, but the appliances are heavy and require more effort to use... I.E. pumping and priming...
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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arizonacamper
Coleman fuel way better than anything else in hot or cold weather especially propane and when I go backpacking  I just take my  Coleman Apex  Lantern and stove 3022 and 3021 with me plus a couple of bottles of fuel  doesn't weigh that much IMHO
Shawn
Owner of Copper State Diesel And Automotive. See my facebook page.

Lanterns are like tools. 
You can not have too many unless your wife says so!!

Gas is what you use for washing parts diesel is for making power!

Coleman blues 243 #147
Coleman 275 appreciation #74
Milspec syndicate #39

Looking for any lanterns or stoves dated 5/63 or 1/72
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theviewfromhere
Just joined last night after trying to get my grandfather’s 502 to work. Followed Murff’s excellent rebuild page and actually got it to light. Still needs another tear down probably but I’m happy. 

Fuel preferences:
-Wood fire if at all possible (cook, heat and light up your campsite all at the same time)
-502 with CF because it’s not temp dependent (and just a solid piece of equipment)
-MSR Whisperlite Int’l because it’s multi-fuel and I plan on going overseas soon (I steered clear of canisters because of temp issues and waste they create)
-One of those super simple alcohol burners because it’s super simple simple and it burns alcohol and it’s around $10-15 if memory serves
Dan

Bring Coleman back 🇺🇸
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Willy
Here is what I used this summer on a long (24 days) Kayak camping trip.  Two wood chip/twig burners, and one single burner CF Coleman stove. I used finger size wood trigs and pine cones, no wood chopping required.  Carried one quart of CF for the Coleman.  Only used the Coleman if everything was damp.
Stoves1.jpg 
The 1st wood stove made by 4Dog Stove. Titanium and very light. Cooked everything from pancakes , soup to steaks on it. The middle stove (Kelly kettle) is strictly a water boiler.  Essentially a aluminum chimney with a water envelope, and very efficient at boiling water.  Surface water treatment is a biggie if you don't want to pick up any parasites, viruses or bacteria.  Hot water for coffee, tea, and oatmeal for breakfast.  The Coleman was used sparingly, since I could not resupply the fuel.
Wood is my first choice, as it is free and available wherever there are trees.  I learned to store a few days worth of dry tinder.
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Chucker
Have used and would use all of the above fuels, even solar. 

Options are a good thing. 
Chuck
"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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ke4ljh
I find there is a time and place for each one of these kinds of fuels. One is not better than the other. Just match the stove or lighting to the need. Sometimes a small lightweight packable unit is needed. At the other end is the full-size gasoline three burner box stove. Mix and match to the need and intended use.

My preference is gasoline stoves and lighting. But I like to burn fossil fuels.

Stephen - Florida
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Gunhippie
While I prefer CF, I usually carry a 2.5 gal Coleman "Bomb" propane tank, my homemade "tree", a single-mantle propane lantern and a propane adapter for a suitcase stove. The propane option means never having to teach noobs how to operate a CF appliance! And sometimes I'm just lazy and want the "instant-on" option.

The propane option is also very nice during fire season out here. Our local US National Forest, the Wallowa/Whitman, forbids the use of liquid fuels outside of a vehicle or an approved campground. Since I rarely camp in a campground, the propane adapter allows me to still use dispersed sites when things are dry.

For backpacking, I have a tiny GigaPower stove that weighs about 1 oz. It uses the butane/propane or isobutane canisters. Getting old and carrying anything is unpleasant these days! For light, an LED headlight is all I need. Usually too bushed by dusk to do much more than stare at the stars and hit the sack, anyway.

My winter camping days are pretty much done, but I do have several excellent CF options should I need them.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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dbhost
Gunhippie wrote:
While I prefer CF, I usually carry a 2.5 gal Coleman "Bomb" propane tank, my homemade "tree", a single-mantle propane lantern and a propane adapter for a suitcase stove. The propane option means never having to teach noobs how to operate a CF appliance! And sometimes I'm just lazy and want the "instant-on" option.

The propane option is also very nice during fire season out here. Our local US National Forest, the Wallowa/Whitman, forbids the use of liquid fuels outside of a vehicle or an approved campground. Since I rarely camp in a campground, the propane adapter allows me to still use dispersed sites when things are dry.

For backpacking, I have a tiny GigaPower stove that weighs about 1 oz. It uses the butane/propane or isobutane canisters. Getting old and carrying anything is unpleasant these days! For light, an LED headlight is all I need. Usually too bushed by dusk to do much more than stare at the stars and hit the sack, anyway.

My winter camping days are pretty much done, but I do have several excellent CF options should I need them.


I've heard of this before, do you know what the justification of banning the use of liquid fuel use in the national forest? By that logic you shouldn't be able to use a vehicle with an internal combustion engine to get to your campsite... It just seems odd. Your fuel is containerized, it emits from the burner as a vapor, and is ignited and contained at the burner assembly. How is liquid fuel any more dangerous than say propane? You spill liquid fuel and you get a raised fire risk. You leak propane you get an increased fire plus an explosion risk. Seems to me liquid fuel would be preferred...
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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Chucker
Dave, this is a WAG but "they" might think the danger comes when transferring fuel or fueling a stove or lantern takes place. Not all campers let the flame go out or cool before refueling. I would add that some may even add their liquid fuel to a campfire to get it going. I sure do but not with burning bans on. 

You don't have that issue when attaching and removing profane canisters. Again, just a guess. 
Chuck
"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
Quote
Gunhippie
dbhost wrote:


I've heard of this before, do you know what the justification of banning the use of liquid fuel use in the national forest? By that logic you shouldn't be able to use a vehicle with an internal combustion engine to get to your campsite... It just seems odd. Your fuel is containerized, it emits from the burner as a vapor, and is ignited and contained at the burner assembly. How is liquid fuel any more dangerous than say propane? You spill liquid fuel and you get a raised fire risk. You leak propane you get an increased fire plus an explosion risk. Seems to me liquid fuel would be preferred...


I don't think there is any rational reason behind this--just typical knee-jerk reaction. Somebody heard of somebody who's aunt's neighbor's brother started a fire with his liquid-fueled lantern.

Way more scary to me is parking in dry grass with a hot cat converter. When I was doing fieldwork, I got a pass on the converter since it was "agricultural" work, but my newer Vanagon still has a cat. First thing I do when I pull off the road is grab my machete and clear any weeds/grass that are even close to the cat! Had a friend lose a rig this way years ago--and then had to pay the USFS $10K for a fire he put out himself!
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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dbhost
Gunhippie wrote:


I don't think there is any rational reason behind this--just typical knee-jerk reaction. Somebody heard of somebody who's aunt's neighbor's brother started a fire with his liquid-fueled lantern.

Way more scary to me is parking in dry grass with a hot cat converter. When I was doing fieldwork, I got a pass on the converter since it was "agricultural" work, but my newer Vanagon still has a cat. First thing I do when I pull off the road is grab my machete and clear any weeds/grass that are even close to the cat! Had a friend lose a rig this way years ago--and then had to pay the USFS $10K for a fire he put out himself!


Funny you should mention that... I am old enough to remember when catalytic converters were the new thing. The church my parents went to had a field for overflow parking. One Easter Sunday, someone with a new Caddilac ignited the dry grass they parked over via the catalytic converter and burned the car up. Not sure if newer catalyst technolgies solve this problem, but as of 1975 it was a problem...
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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shaune509
When EPA forced cats on all gas powered truck in the late 80's the wheat farmers found out that the premium for oil burners was worth it vs the cost of burnt fields and equipment. Now all the equipment they use must meet EPA reg's while turning dirt in a 1000 acre field. Gov over reach.
My take on the no liquid fuel is it was an idea from a desk warmer that never saw the real world outside his city park, but thinks he knows all because he went to school for 16 years. Some thing like Mini Mike.
Shaune509
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dbhost
shaune509 wrote:
When EPA forced cats on all gas powered truck in the late 80's the wheat farmers found out that the premium for oil burners was worth it vs the cost of burnt fields and equipment. Now all the equipment they use must meet EPA reg's while turning dirt in a 1000 acre field. Gov over reach.
My take on the no liquid fuel is it was an idea from a desk warmer that never saw the real world outside his city park, but thinks he knows all because he went to school for 16 years. Some thing like Mini Mike.
Shaune509


Sadly, I ssupect a lot of this comes from that sort of theoretical thinking without any sort of actual analsysis or real world testing.
Love my old school Coleman liquid fuel gear. Looking for tips and tricks to make the most of it.

-Dave
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Gunhippie
Well, early '90s or so I was able to get an exemption from having a catalytic converter as I was doing "agricultural work"--living and working out in the woods.  I was able to buy a bare, flanged tube that perfectly replaced the cat on my '83 Vanagon--JC Whitney? I assumed anyone working in conditions where lighting the landscape with your converter was a possibility could also get one. I was contracting for the USFS and other US agencies, so I did kind of have an inside line.

As for the liquid fuel restriction during fire season, this seems to be forest by forest and not regional. I never had problems while working on the Rouge, Fremont (though they did highly restrict where we could camp--mostly old gravel pits) and other forests in Region Six--just the Wallowa-Whitman NF. I've heard of others that have similar policies.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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sweeper

I'm with Willy and you I carry a couple of sizes of the Kelley Kettle depending on the size of the group and cook on a campfire

The KK boils water fast and most of the time there is enough fuel left around the firepit

Kevin

Never met a 502 I didn't lite, -Like
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ke4ljh
My two cents...
If and When using a coleman suitcase stove I use the least cost option for fuel. RUG regular unleaded gas. The generators are large enough that I never have carbon build up. I do not use rug in single burner stoves, the generators are too small in diameter and clog easily. Use coleman fuel for the single burner stoves.

Stephen - Florida
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cookie
I use almost every type of fuel since I own many stoves. I did however give away my only canister stove recently to a friend in need. My favorite fuel is kerosene for it's safety and btu's. In a stove like my Nova I prefer an amish mix of 80/20 kero/white gas. I prefer the cleanest of fuel options at all times and rarely go with the cheapest option like RUG but will go for the cheaper white gas option. In kero I prefer Klean-Heat since many of my kero/parrafin stoves are 70-80+ years old. I never use diesel unless it's absolutely necessary. I buy my denatured alcohol in the five gallon containers since it's cheaper that way ($44). That way the marine alcohol stove is affordable lol.
I'm not a collector. I just own many versions of the same item.

-John-
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mithril
hikerduane wrote:
Forgot denatured alcohol.  More expensive than other fuels except wood, but stoves for backpacking using DNA are silly light and only require less than a oz. of fuel to boil some water for a meal.  Container for DNA is also light, can use a size only required for trip length.
Duane


A major upside of DNA is that you can buy it in any hardware store as well as any gas station as dry gas.

-Bob
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