200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

David of Ballard
Hi, I have a tale of two Coleman two-burner 425 stoves and need some advice. 

Stove A I bought sometime in the 1990's, I think. It was my first camp stove (I used backpacking stoves before that), and it has seen good use over the years with our family. The front says 425 on a sticker, and it has instructions in three languages in the lid if that helps ID it. The plunger has a plastic twist-lock connect to the fuel tank.

Stove B came to us when my mother-in-law moved to a retirement home. It was probably bought about 1980, and never used. (It was still in the decomposing remains of the original box, with a PayLess Drugs price tag!) The instructions are in English only, and the plunger attaches with a metal clip. The front is embossed 425F.

They both have plastic (neoprene?) pump cups.

Stove A has several problems. The lighting lever doesn't seem to do anything (not sure it ever did...). The gas valve, when all the way off, still lets pressurized gas out the tube. I disassembled & cleaned that assembly some years back. Otherwise, this stove works pretty well, although I think it used to give a better flame. (The pump cup felt dry, so I put a little 3-in-1 on it.)

Stove B's plunger has an issue. I can pressurize the tank, but as soon as I take my finger off the hole on the plunger knob, it loses pressure out that hole. I can tighten the knob and it will stop leaking. But in the time it takes to tighten, it loses a fair bit of pressure. (I could practice and maybe get faster at it, but not a great solution.) The stove runs well, but keeping enough pressure in the tank is between a hassle and impossible.

I put stove A's tank (with the good plunger) on stove B, and that setup ran really well. Everything was already hot because I'd just messed with both stoves, but I think even from cold it would work. However, that still leaves the bad valve assembly in the picture.

I could try moving the valve assembly from B to A, but that's into plumbing work so I'd rather get some advice first. Plus, if we can get both stoves working, I'm pretty sure one of my teens will take it when the time comes.

I'm a woodworker, anything with metal & valves & oil is not intuitive to me, and I don't keep stuff like solvents and greases around. But I'm willing to try repairs, or if I'm better off getting new parts that'd be fine too.

Thanks in advance for any help!
David of Ballard
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Barrett
Hi David
Until the experts come to the rescue I'll share my limited knowledge and what I would try

Stove A
Lighting lever, this adjusts the fuel/air Rod within the fuel pick up tube-FA tube.
When the lever is raised the rod within the FA tube restricts fuel pick up at the tube base and allows air from the top of the tank via a small air hole in the tube above the fuel to mix into the restricted fuel stream making it easier to light, once heated up and burning well flipping the lever down allows Rod to close air hole at top and opens base pick up to full fuel stream.
These can get gunked up and require cleaning, which means pulling the valve out.
But I do wonder if you have a restriction in the valve itself since you say it leaks.
I have had success cleaning leaking valves up, so would suggest a cleaning first, if not you should be able to get a new valve through our sponsor old Coleman parts, click on banner at top.

Stove B
Much easier.... the ball in the pump check valve is stuck, probably with fuel varnish. 
The ball forms a near seal whilst you are on the back stroke of each pump and until you lock check valve by screwing it closed.
Get some automotive Carb cleaner, remove pump and check valve Rod and spray the carb cleaner in pump tube and allow to soak.
Work some through the check valve with the pump after its been soaking, also using something thin and soft to move the ball within can help, need to get cleaner all around the ball and tube it's in.
This can take a bit of time soaking (up to days in one case of mine) so just keep adding cleaner as needed and trying the pump in there every now and then.
Once free it will be good to go.

That's what I'd try .
Andrew

Living and learning in NZ
Hoping to reach cognitive and emotional maturity before my children do.
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arizonacamper
2nd what Barrett says good advice I'd start there and see what happens 
Shawn 
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David of Ballard
Thanks so much for the guidance! This forum is a fantastic resource, so glad it's here. 

For stove A, I might buy parts. I tried cleaning it some years back, not sure it made any difference. It's valves & plumbing & such which are not my strong suit. I'd be happy to send the old one to somebody for recycling, hate to just throw it away.

For stove B, I'll pick up some carb cleaner and give that a go on the pump check ball. When you say "something thin & soft", what do you have in mind? I'm thinking a Q-tip might be a bad idea, bits of cotton could get in there. I have a long-shafted plastic slotted screwdriver (from the old days of tuning CRT pots - couldn't have metal next to that voltage!), would that be suitable?

Thanks again,
- David
David of Ballard
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Chucker
"thin and soft", I'm pretty sure he is referring to maybe a wooden bbq skewer or similar to poke the ball when submerged in carb spray. I use a length of thin wire and don't worry about the 'soft' part. 
Chuck
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Barrett
Hi David
Firstly, I forgot to say... Hello and Welcome 🙂
As Chucker says, I meant something like a bbq skewer.
Once you have the pump and check valve Rod out you will see that the opening to the ball in the base of the check valve is pretty small and you need something pretty thin. I also use a thin wire, but for your first rodeo I'd suggest the wooden skewer just to ensure you don't mar the threaded section or the valve face, unlikely, but worth considering. 
Once it has soaked a while spray in some more cleaner and put pump in and pump some pressure into tank, if there's enough cleaner in the tube you will hear it gurgling if it still isn't sealing, let it gurgle away till pressure has gone and then refill with cleaner, poke check ball a bit, let soak some more and repeat pressure test.
If it seals up straight away you will still need to poke the ball back to ensure that the ball is clean over its entire surface or it may continue to leak.
Be careful when poking the ball if tank is holding pressure as it will spray the cleaner straight back at you and your eyes.
Whilst you have the check valve Rod out clean the conical end by spinning the end in some 0000 steel wool or similar soft pot scrubber just to remove any possible old fuel varnish. 

Have a look at Old Coleman Parts for the stove A valve, not sure if it will include the FA tube but if Mike hasn't got one you can salvage old one from the leaky valve.
If OCP doesn't have one, put a WTB in the classifieds here and you'll soon be sorted.

Let us know how you get on, and we like pictures of things burning as they should🙂
Andrew

Living and learning in NZ
Hoping to reach cognitive and emotional maturity before my children do.
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Majicwrench
That check valve will not seal 100%, so will always get some bubbling. You want carb cleaner to go in past the ball.

lots of check valves leak, most of mine seem to clean themselves up with use.

Other stove has main fuel valve that won't seal, you can pull em apart and clean/resurface, or just replace it.

  Thanks for posting, pictures of stoves always encouraged!
Keith
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outlawmws
Hi and Welcome!

What are you using for fuel?  Pump gas WILL gunk things up pretty fast.  CF is much cleaner and generally does not gunk things up.

Pics?  The plastic retainer on the one pump sounds like it was to replace a lost metal clip?
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David of Ballard


Thanks again for all the responses. I got some carb cleaner today, so B's pump is marinating in that now.

I'm attaching four pictures. I feel a bit like the grandmother in the park showing off her grand kids, but you've been really helpful so I'm happy to oblige.

- The two stoves, A (mine) on bottom, B (older) on top. Note the label styles.
[B%20on%20top]

- Stove A showing the plastic twist-lock connector for the pump. This looks pretty factory-original to me.
[A%20with%20twist%20pump]

- The newer stove A on the left, the older B on the right. The gunk on B's wind screens is packaging that decomposed & stuck on. And it has a bit of corrosion, but otherwise pretty sweet. Which doesn't scare me from using it. 
[A%20on%20left]

- Down stove B's pump tube. Looks like R2D2 is meant to connect in there. So the pump check valve ball is the little dark spot in the middle? I can poke at it with a wooden skewer, but I don't see having any control, ability to rotate the ball or anything. I guess if I pressurize the tank, then poke the ball, and it sprays at me ... I'll know I actually moved the ball. :-)
[B%20ball%20valve]

(Hoping I'm using the 'insert photos' feature properly ... feels like I'm doing two copies of each pic.) 

Fuel ... er ... I buy the gallon can of Coleman camp fuel. (The rectangular can, which so politely starts to rust to remind me I haven't been camping enough lately.) Is there a better option? What is "CF" fuel?

Plan is to let the carb cleaner do its work, see that pump working (so I know it doesn't need a part), then order the valve & generator assembly. And yes, once both are running like new, I'll post pics of that too. 

Thanks again. - David

 

Click image for larger version - Name: A on left.jpg, Views: 35, Size: 125.01 KB Click image for larger version - Name: A with twist pump.jpg, Views: 41, Size: 87.54 KB
Click image for larger version - Name: B ball valve.jpg, Views: 38, Size: 57.63 KB Click image for larger version - Name: B on top.jpg, Views: 39, Size: 78.06 KB
David of Ballard
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Barrett
You're on to it now David👍
Yep poking the ball around will hopefully allow it to rotate a little each time and allow the cleaner to work on more of its service, otherwise /sometimes only the exposed face gets a clean and will appear to be doing its job... until the ball rotates a little and it gets sticky and leaky again.... learnt that one from experience. 

Those are 2 great looking stoves! Years of service and pleasure ahead.
Andrew

Living and learning in NZ
Hoping to reach cognitive and emotional maturity before my children do.
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bwperreault
CF = Coleman Fuel 
Brian
ISO 6-56, 7-88, and 2-91.  Found a 1-91, it may be as close as I get.
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David of Ballard

Good news! I'm declaring victory on the pump check ball. I soaked it in carb cleaner several times last night & today, and did the wooden skewer pokes. Then assembled, and it is running better than I remember any stove ever running.

So that's awesome, thanks again for the advice! 

And I've ordered the valve & generator assembly for the other stove. 

- David
David of Ballard
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Barrett
That's excellent news David, well done!
A pleasure helping a follow member get a stove back up to performance. 
Andrew

Living and learning in NZ
Hoping to reach cognitive and emotional maturity before my children do.
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David of Ballard

Well, now I may have two new issues, on Stove A, the one which I've been using for ~30 years. The new valve / generator assembly arrived this morning (thanks Old Coleman Parts!). And I thought, while I'm at it, I'll put some carb cleaner on the air pump ball.

The first thing I noticed is the tip of the stem isn't nice & conical. See photo. My impression is it has extra metal ... not like it took a hit and smushed, more like it wasn't fully ground down in the first place.
IMGP0384.jpg 
And, I wonder if it could have damaged the valve ball - should I worry about that?

Mind, this air pump has always worked fine.

Second, there was a bit of junk at the bottom of the tube the pump goes into. Just sitting in there, around the check valve. Kind of hard to tell, but it reminded me of the bits of flaky rusted paint that happens when rust gets behind paint.

Thoughts?

Oh, one more question, please: when I replace the gas valve, should I put Teflon tape on the threads? 

Thanks,
- David
David of Ballard
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Smudge
You could file the tip of that valve stem to the correct form, but that deformed tip is probably inconsequential and it would not damage the steel ball in the check valve. The remove gunk inside the pump tube, I use a paper towel wrapped around a screwdriver and stick it in there and rotate it and absorb the excess oil.
As far as the valve, I don't use teflon tape. You could use thread sealer or nothing at all. I use Loctite 545 thread sealant, but there are many other options.
Wait for others to post, for more opinions.
and welcome to the forum!
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hikerduane
I also use a paper towel to clean the pump tube, soaking one end in some kero or light oil to hold some of the crud and loosen it also.  To add force to the paper towel, I use my needle nose pliers to rotate the towel.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
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SteveRetherford
looks like it was dropped pointy end first n hit the floor . you see the very first ring at the pointy end ? that is where this piece seats up against the CV to make the seal complete . kinda looks over tightened to form such a deep ring .

IMGP0384.jpg
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zoomkat
Yea, looks like the stem got dropped or something similar. It might still work ok, so I would test it first seeing if it seals and passes fuel before making any changes to it.
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David of Ballard

I think my tale of two stoves has reached a good ending.

This afternoon I put the new valve / generator assembly in. I also replaced the master burner - I ordered that part (set of parts) at the same time, because the original was pretty dirty, and last summer somebody managed to get candle wax into it. We cleaned the wax off, but I wasn't convinced.

So Stove A, my well-used 1990-ish stove, is now working pretty well. Not as well as Stove B ... the new lighting lever doesn't seem to have nearly as much effect as the one on B, and even with the replaced master burner it runs a little rough. But it is totally functional, so I'm happy.

Oh, I didn't do anything about the tip of the valve stem. I'm pretty sure I've never had it out, so I don't think it could have been bashed, dropped, over-tightened, or anything else. I think that's the factory's work. But it has been working for 30 years ... why fix what isn't broken, right?

Pictures of each stove running. 
IMGP0387.jpg  IMGP0390.jpg 
Plus: picture of a four-burner setup! (Not that I want to have four pans going while I'm camping....)
CIMG5183.jpg 

Thanks again to everyone for your invaluable help.

- David
David of Ballard
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Barrett
Nice blue flames David!
Now that you've fettle a stove or two you could be considered a Stovie, don't be ashamed.... embrace it and get ready for the third....and fourth lol
Andrew

Living and learning in NZ
Hoping to reach cognitive and emotional maturity before my children do.
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Smudge
It's no wonder the tried and true design of those stoves has changed very little over so many decades. 
Looks like you got them running nicely again. Thanks for the final update. 
"If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts,
also happens to the man. Whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth.” - Chief Seattle

ICCC # 1726  -  Bernz0matiC Appreciation Club #057
Perfection Heater Collectors #6
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