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BigIron2312

Howdy, folks!
I was given a Coleman 418 several years ago by a friend.  He'd bought it at a yard sale, and it didn't work, so it ended up in my truck, and it's sat in my utility room till today.

So I want to make it work and use it.  It appears to be intact, with the exception of one of the legs.  The tank seems to hold pressure, but no fuel comes out the tube.  Out side of that, I don't know what else may be wrong with it.

I'm no engineer, or mechanic...I fix guns and build cigar box guitars, but I'm hoping you folks can steer me in the right direction on what I should check out or do to get it up and running.
I'd sure appreciate any help!
Thanks!

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Svensson
Welcome to the forum! You'll fit right in here, and you're off to an awesome start with a 418. That is a pretty rare stove, so make sure you take good care of it.

From what you've described, it sounds like the generator may be the problem. This long hollow rod connects the fuel tank to the burner. If you can, try to unscrew it from the valve assembly on the tank. Once you get it off, take a look inside to see if it's plugged. If it is, you will have to clean it. You can soak it in a cleaning solution, heat and quench it, or use an ultrasonic cleaner. Usually the problem will be carbon. If you aren't able to clean it out, you may have to purchase a new one.

If that does not fix the problem, your issue is most likely with the fuel pickup. Put some fresh fuel in the tank after draining out the old and shake it around a bit, then pour it out. Make sure the fuel that comes out is clear, otherwise your pickup may become clogged with debris. After you rinse with fuel, pour a good amount of fuel in the tank and let it sit. This will help dissolve and varnish that may have formed in the tank and may also solve your problem.

We'd all love to see pictures of your 418, even before you get it running!
Alex Swanson
"The King of Moderate Deals"
ICCC Member #1033
Friends of Cadpat Society Member #0001
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MustXcape

[Smilie6]

It sounds like your mechanically inclined enough to repair your stove. You might want to look at the Technical Assistance pages provided by Old Coleman Parts, the host of this forum:

Theory of Operation (applies to stoves as well as lanterns)

Rebuilding a Camping Stove

How to Light a Coleman Stove

These links do a far better job than I can of providing what you need to know. If you just want to target the specific problem, Svensson has identified the top causes and fixes.

That stove is very early, I know of no surviving copies of the original instruction manual that have been posted to the Internet.

I can stop collecting anytime. I just don't want to.... Soooo.... How much do you want for that?
[75x48200a1][75x4840][75x4810][75x4820][75x4860][75x4890][75x4830]
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BigIron2312
Thanks for the welcome!
You guys will be better judges than me, but to my uneducated eye it looks to be in good condition.  I don't really expect any major problems, but what I know about this stuff you could put in a shot glass and have plenty of room left for bourbon.

Svensson,  I will be posting pics ASAP.  I'm trying to knock out a double neck cigar box guitar before vacation, so I'm not sure if I'll get to the project this week, but I will get started on it soon.

MustXcape, thanks for the links.  I will check them out soon.

I'll be glad to get this project started...it sure looks like it will be interesting!


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SteveRetherford
here are some pics from the CCS site 

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?tid/16198/post/new/
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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JimDouglasJr
Jumping to conclusions. The generators on these are rarely plugged.

Before you pull the generator off, we can diagnose your problem.
These only have about 5 moving parts.  No need to guess.

Things to eliminate first, always:
Oil the pump leather.
Be sure you have a good fuel cap seal. It's almost surely bad. They usually are after about 30 years.  You can pop a hardware store O ring in for the time being.

Once that is done:
Pump up tank 40+ times, close pump/check valve.
Put lighting (air) lever in up position.  Open valve all the way.
If you hear air hissing at the end of the generator, the generator is clear.
If so, wait about 15-20 seconds.  If fuel begins to sputter, you're good.

 If not, (air but no fuel), you'll need to remove the valve and clean the fuel pick up assembly.

If you get no air, remove the generator and then open the valve.
If you get air and/or fuel, the generator is clogged or the pricker rod is broken off in the tip of the generator.  
You can usually visually confirm this is retracting before removing the generator by opening the valve all the way and watching the generator tip.  The needle should retract inside as you open the valve.

Do all this (takes about 5 minutes) and report back.
 

Kyle. Kaptain Kamplite - America's Finest Lantern Fettler.
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate and 243 Blues Member #0031 &  J.C. Higgins aficionado.
“If you light a lamp for someone else, it will also brighten your path.” Buddhist quote.  Brand-X Super Hoarder.
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Charlie
Post a pic of the double neck cigar box guitar as well, sounds cool!
Charlie
__________
ICCC #1121
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SteveRetherford
i have a whole BUNCH of wooden cuban cigar boxes .  made from spanish cedar and smell great .
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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SteveRetherford
ya , most stove generators just need a cleaning but OCP has a new one if needed 

https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product.php?productid=301&cat=&page=1
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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Flat_twin
Thanks for posting the link to pics Steve.  I forgot what those looked like.  Love that burner design!  I know how hefty the two burner version is,  the three burner probably hurts your hand to carry it any distance at all. 
Mark __________________________________________
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Christopher_OR
Welcome to the CCF! How is it these 418s end up missing the legs??? That's my assumption anyway with yours. Kyle has given sound advice to start. When undoing anything, don't use too much force. Backing the valve out of the tank can break the boss it threads in to, for example.
Christopher OR 

1970 – 2017 R.I.P.
This member has passed.

His Favorite Quotes:

"Life is about turning the things you want to do into things you've done." --KRD

"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." --Samuel Clemens

"Everyone looks good in the fish eye lens that is the side of a Coleman fount." --raly13

ICCC #947
Coleman Blues #041
A turd is something you flush.
-----------------------------
76501 00037
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BigIron2312
I'm gonna be leaving work shortly, and gonna jump on this when I get home. If I can get pics to upload from my phone I'll be set, if not I'll have to monkey with the computer.
Starting to get real curious as to what's up with this critter.
I pumped the tank last night and it build up pressure quick, but turned the lighting lever and nothing happened. Unscrewed the fill cap, no problem, unscrewed the pump and pulled out the dooliebobber, checked the leather(?) gasket, it seemed in one piece. With pressure on the tank the fuel began to leak. Will look into the rest tonight.
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JimDouglasJr
This may have been your problem.
You can't just turn up the lighting lever and expect it to light.  You have to turn it up and open the valve.
Turning the lighting lever up only adds air from the fount to the fuel for lighting to help make vapor to burn.  
Once the generator is hot, it starts generating its own vapor. Then you put the lever down and then only fuel feeds to the generator.

Maybe that was the whole problem.

Still, and I've repaired nearly 300 GPAs, (Gas Pressure Appliances), order a new fuel cap seal.  It may seem OK now, but after years of disuse, is hard and will quickly get worse.   I've had to replace easily 95% of them.  
That and oiling the pump are must-do items, even if they seem OK now.
Kyle. Kaptain Kamplite - America's Finest Lantern Fettler.
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate and 243 Blues Member #0031 &  J.C. Higgins aficionado.
“If you light a lamp for someone else, it will also brighten your path.” Buddhist quote.  Brand-X Super Hoarder.
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Svensson
JimDouglasJr wrote:

Still, and I've repaired nearly 300 GPAs, (Gas Pressure Appliances), order a new fuel cap seal.  It may seem OK now, but after years of disuse, is hard and will quickly get worse.   I've had to replace easily 95% of them.  
That and oiling the pump are must-do items, even if they seem OK now.


If it is a 418 with a winged fuel cap (and not a 418B with a knurled cap) I believe it uses a lead washer, which is not as easily sourced. John Stendahl would know for sure. With a lead washer in the cap you can usually just tighten it down a little extra to account for wear. I've had a lot of stoves with generators (especially when you're getting up to and beyond 80 year old stoves) that were clogged or would not pass fuel from being full of carbon. Worth checking out.
Alex Swanson
"The King of Moderate Deals"
ICCC Member #1033
Friends of Cadpat Society Member #0001
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warren
I've got the original directions for the 418.  I'm sure they were probably scanned.  I'll check later this weekend.

I love 418s.    It is amazing how many are missing the legs.  

ANTIQUESWV on Ebay
#1 in the 223B club
Gatlinburg, TN

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dave
good advice from Alex,i have no doubt you will get it figured out and have it running like a champ
275 Apreciation Syndicate Member #0019 dave !

COLEMAN, AMERICA'S TOP OF SALES LANTERN IN THE USA!!
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StanDahl
I have found that those winged fuel caps rarely seem to fail. I don't know what sort of seal they have because I've never had to check, they always work. (It's probably lead.)

Quote:
I pumped the tank last night and it build up pressure quick, but turned the lighting lever and nothing happened. Unscrewed the fill cap, no problem, unscrewed the pump and pulled out the dooliebobber, checked the leather(?) gasket, it seemed in one piece. With pressure on the tank the fuel began to leak.


Where was the fuel leaking from??

Oh, and...

Where's the pic.jpg 
ICCC Petty Bureaucrat #CMLXII...
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BigIron2312_resurrected
Wow, what kind of jerk fires up good folks like this and then never comes back?
i have it on good authority that a bit of chaos broke out in this feller’s life and most everything ended up on the back burner.
Never got this thing running-as a matter of fact, I never even tried until last night.  
Life regained order, infants are no longer infants, yada yada, cleaning the disaster area that use to be my office, and I stumbled back onto this monstrosity.  Since I can finally camp again, I got real excited and remembered starting this thread FIVE years ago.
I’m gonna dive into this thing over the weekend and see what I’m dealing with.  This time I really will report back!
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BSAGuy
I hate it when real life intrudes on my hobbies!  Glad to have you back and looking forward to seeing some pics of your 418.
- Courtenay
Be Prepared
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hikerduane
Then the thread dies again.  
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves who's counting.
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BigIron2312_resurrected
Not this time!  
Ive full blown gone crazy.
Ive lost 80lbs, have gobs of energy, have taken an interest in tearing apart everything, have been learning to work on my vehicles, setting up a forge and a open shop/work area, been fishing and hunting like crazy, I can now walk more than 100 yards without unbearable pain, and since I’ve slept the last three nights with no cpap with no ill effects, I’m itching to start camping again.

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rainjer
You last comment about your cpap kinda concerns me... As a person with sleep apnea myself for the last 20+ years, I would recommend you stop using you cpap without your doctors consent. I know having a cpap can be a bother and can restrict your ability to do certain activities but there are ways to adapt.  For many years I continued to camp and hunt with my CPAP. I bought a deep cycle battery and a 12V power plug for my machine so I could power my machine while camping. With this combo I have and a small 15w solar panel have a camped for 9 day without power.

Last year my wife took a 18 day vacation to Ireland. In planning the trip I was concerned about the hassle of taking my CPAP with me so I bought a travel cpap (HDM Z1 Auto) and the power shell battery. With this new machine travel was a breeze. The battery last 2 nights without any problem so now when I go camping I don't have to lug around a 50# battery. Battery charges i about 4 hours so I can charge it the car while I am traveling if need using the 12v power cord.

I would suggest, if you haven't already, you contact you doctor and do another sleep study to see if it is really safe for you to stop using the machine.

Jeremy

Visit http://www.rainjersdecals.com for you Coleman direction disc decals and metal signs.

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Majicwrench
Good on ya.
Fun old thread, some things never change, WHY ARE ALL THE LEGS MISSING??? Who has them all stashed??
Keith
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BigIron2312_resurrected
Rainjer-thanks for the advice, and don’t worry, I ain’t gonna stop using it yet.  We’ve had some storms and power issues lately, which accounts for two of those nights; last night I just fell asleep.
Prior, though, a night without the cpap would leave me in a dream-like state for the entire day-couldn’t drive or really safely function.
Today, and the last two, I feel like a million bucks.
I have thirty more pounds before I hit my goal; when I get there, and can jog fifteen minutes without feeling like I’m gonna die, I’m gonna get a sleep study done again.  Don’t want to do it till I’m pretty sure I don’t need the cpap anymore, because the last one cost me $10,000.
It was totally worth it, but I really don’t want another unless I really need it.
im gonna look into that travel cpap, though.  That would make life way easier.
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BigIron2312_resurrected
So, last night I messed around with this thing.  I confirmed-forgive me with the lingo-the pump knob, where you twist it to open and close-was stuck.  Took the pump/rod/gasket out, oiled them, grabbed the square rod inside in gave it some force, and it budged.  Now I can open and close the device as it should be done.
pumped it up and turned both the knob and the lever-no sound.  Removed the end of the nozzle and confirmed the the needle thinggee does retract when I twist the knob.  

Then I dug up this thread, set up a new account, and fell asleep while hoping it might be approved before I crashed.
Turns out if I’d made it about twenty minutes longer I’d have been set.
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Gunhippie
The next step is replacing your fuel cap gasket. It's certainly gone south. Lots of threads here on how to do it. If you don't want to wait for a new one, go to the hardware or auto-parts store and get a Viton o-ring to fit. I think it's #112.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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BigIron2312_resurrected
Gunhippie wrote:
The next step is replacing your fuel cap gasket. It's certainly gone south. Lots of threads here on how to do it. If you don't want to wait for a new one, go to the hardware or auto-parts store and get a Viton o-ring to fit. I think it's #112.


Don’t take it as me questioning you, because ain’t it-but mine has the wings instead of being knurled...am I correct in that one being lead?
Would it use the same o-ring?
i do have access to lead and the knowledge of how to manipulate it.
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Majicwrench
Lead ones not quite as likely to be rotten...but pump up tank and piss some soapy water around it and see if it bubble. If it does, again, just grab an o-ring that fits.
 When pumped up, if you remove fill cap, pressure comes out, yes?
Keith
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chrisnjenn
This is funny.  I just got home with the wife and told her as we walked past my shelves of GPS’s I needed to start tackling a stove because I have only restored lanterns for the past 6 months or so.  I was about to start a thread about it.

I got a 418 last year at the Fall SE gathering and decided this is my next project.  I was debating to paint it or not, but decided not to because, well, I suck at painting.  Plus the paint on it is not bad.  It will be a user anyways.

I will follow this thread with interest.

Welcome back to the forum.  Stay a while.  Great place.

Chris from Georgia
Chris
ICCC #1772
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mgmlvks
Welcome back!
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215
"In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present"
Francis Bacon
(and - for those who have asked - avatar from postcard and says "Coming Home by Rail".  https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4595/27430282209_39a564be00_z.jpg
 
 
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Gunhippie
Yeah, well, I was thinking of a newer model stove. You can re-melt the lead and level it, carefully and with skill, or find a Viton O-ring that fits and just fly with that. Just guessing it's the fuel cap not sealing that prevents anything from coming out the generator. Next step is to clean the FA or pick-up tube if sealing the cap doesn't do it.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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BigIron2312_resurrected
I’ll dive into that either this evening or tomorrow at some point and get back with ya.  Thanks!
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