200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
grob
Can't get a 228B fired. Any ideas? It is a 1936 228B in nice shape.

- I took it apart and back together twice. Got things clocked right the 2nd time
- Did a dunk test
- BB dance with fuel for the fount. Spotlessly clean… no, but good I think
- Cleaned the fuel valve and fuel/air tube
- The cleaner assembly where the eccentric is was clogged with black hard gunk and cleaned that out. Used a drill bit to help (did not hone or drill out)
- Fount holds pressure overnight even
- I straightened out the mangled genny needle and tried that. There was fuel in the genny tube, the cardboard tube is old and falling apart, so
- I swapped a good working genny from a 220E with not much better results. Fuel valve open 1 turn
- It lit for a bit without mantles and with
- It stayed lit for maybe a minute with mantles, but usually goes out pretty quick
- Will burn a bit where the genny enters the air tube while I turn the the clean-out rod, then goes out
- Had a couple flare-ups inside the collar. Leak inside or trickled down, don't know

That's the story. Any ideas of what to try?
Thanks, Gary

[228b_9s-77270916]
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
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Majicwrench
Spin the tip cleaner....a lot. If you had black gunk in there, it will plug tip over and over again. If spinning it bring back light, you have debris issues. This is normal to an extent, and may clean up itself, keep spinning tip cleaner OR do a real nice job of cleaning font and plumbing.
Fuel valve should be open 1/4 turn to light, leave it there for 30 seconds or so, then fully open valve. No reason to have valve 1 turn open. Either 1/4 turn, or full open.
Without mantle often hard to get em to stay lit for long, esp at 1/4 turn.
Keith
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Hot Diggity
Are the air tubes clear?  Sounds like you have combustion with restricted air flow.

Spiders and wasps like those dark places.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #0510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker
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grob
Thanks, but everything is totally cleaned out, sprayed, bottle brushed, blown out, etc. as stated above.
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
Chucker
Not all lanterns operate alike.

If you got it to light for about 1 minute at 1 turn of the valve wheel, what happens if you open it three turns? I understand you don't open it that much to light but if you have it lit for one minute - it's usually time for me to open it more after that. 

What often happens is the fuel rod (in the F/A) doesn't retract as much as the last lantern did therefore it won't allow as much fuel to pass. 
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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SteveRetherford
only open it about 1/4 turn to lite it , after a minute open it fully .

http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/scans/220b_1.htm
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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Gand28
Gary, I agree it sounds like something is blocking things. Do you have a small butane torch?  Sometimes when I’ve just put one back together and have similar issues, i preheat the generator with a torch and open the valve a couple turns. Keep the flame moving and you often get a flood of fuel and a momentary fireball, but it lights and then takes off. Do this outside with no vent or globe on. 

May not be for everyone, but in addition to all I am, I’m a pyromaniac too. 
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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SteveRetherford
any more than 1/4 to open your get raw liquid fuel instead of vapors for lighting . thats likely what ran down inside the collar .
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
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Gunhippie
I'd just about bet you put the spring on the wrong side of the FA rod follower. The spring goes under the follower--the knob on top of the rod. If it's on top, the lantern is in permanent Instant-Lite position and will run fora few minutes before the fount air is exhausted.

It should be like this:

[30311789496_4e2db78867_b]
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Gunhippie
Re-reading the last two points on your list, it also sounds like you have a leaking valve or are not pre-heating enough. Flames belong inside the mantles and no where else.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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dbosch
One question, did you open the valve fully, and not just 1 turn after the mantles lit and burned brightly?  If so, it's still in the Instant Lite mode.  If you opened the valve fully then continue:

Preheat well with a propane torch if you have one, then open valve fully.  Not just one turn, all the way until it stops.  If it burns fine, it's not the burner or generator.  It's in the instant-lite circuit.  If that's the case, remove the valve assembly and clean the fuel/air tube.  I know you've already said you've done this but remove the fuel air tube and take the wire assembly that is inside the fuel/air tube and run it up from the bottom through the orifice in the fuel/air tube.  Run it back and forth while using the wire to scrape the sides of the orifice clean.  Often what happens is you scrub the outside clean but there is a circle of corrosion in the orifice that is snug with the wire, effectively choking out any fuel passage until the wire is raised up out of the orifice when the valve is fully opened.  Using the wire is the safest method.  I have a acetylene torch tip cleaner that I use, but since it is basically a set of miniature rasps you have to be very careful when using it or you will open up that orifice and ruin the instant-lite mixture to the burner.  It will be too rich.  When clean, you should see a small gap between the wire and the orifice, IE, the wire will rattle in the hole.  It will be a very small amount, but there will be a noticeable rattle.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
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grob
Steve, I am just not getting enough fuel or fuel/air to keep it running. Only got it running for a little bit once. Never got it to burn brightly.

Greg, ya it seems like the genny needs pre-heating. Seems I read somewhere about a B needing this. I have a small tip for a propane torch, so I will try this, valve closed first then lite as usual, then try some of these other ideas of opening the valve more.

Timm, pretty sure I got the spring on the bottom, as I understand how that works. Will find out if I have to take it apart again.

Dan. I opened the fuel valve 2- 3 turns at some point. I usually clean things real well and I probably ran the wire up the bottom of the fuel/air tube, but I may take it apart a 3rd time and address that. Sometimes I will use a needle to clean the small jets.

Thanks so much for the advice guys. Off to try the torch preheat.
Gary
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
Gunhippie
I did once leave the FA rod out of a lantern, as it had rolled off to the side of the bench and gotten overlooked. Performance was as you describe, except for the extra-mantle fire.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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dbosch
Gary-
B's shouldn't need a preheat.  They should light just like any of the 220/228 models from B-F as the burners are basically the same.  One thing I'll do before I light one is crack the valve open 1/4 turn until I hear it start to spit.  Once it does that, close the valve and then light the match.  Poke it in the frame and then reopen the valve 1/4 turn.  The system is primed and ready then.  Some of the lanterns will take a long time before they will siphon up some fuel to light, especially if they are not full.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
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grob
Dan, Ya I agree with it not needing a preheat, but I'm trying whatever. I took my 220E apart last year for a good flossing and had no problem. Runs great. I just did the torch preheat and got absolutely nothing, notta, zip, so I guess I'll take it apart again and check the FA tube. Giving up for the day and on to short ribs and barby zucchini from the garden!
Danke, Gar
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
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Majicwrench
Spin the tip cleaner!!!!!!!!!!! And/or pull generator and make sure you have fuel there with valve open.  If you have fuel at generator ( and from the fires it sound like you do) then nothing stopping fuel from getting there.
Keith
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grob
Keith, I have spun the tip cleaner till my fingers hurt and swapped the generator for one I know works as I said before. The cleaner assembly is very clean. There has been fuel in the generator, and pressure in the fount, so I am perplexed. Gar
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
Majicwrench
If there is fuel in the generator and the tip is clean, it will produce flame of some sort.

Loosen or remove generator and see if fuel is getting up to generator...if it is, problem is generator is plugged.
Keith
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zoomkat
I'd go with an improperly installed fuel control rod spring (or possibly a stuck rod) , keeping the lantern in somewhat of a start mode. Even in the start mode the lantern my go out after the initial slug of fuel is sent to the generator. If you are not using mantles while testing, you might make something like below out of aluminum foil for the burner, to direct the flame against the generator to keep it hot. cuff1.jpg 
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Hot Diggity
I've seen this before, and I think I understand the flame in the generator hole on the air tube.  Have you seen the generator spray fuel/stop spraying while you rotate the tip cleaner?  This does require running the generator bare (air inlet tube removed) to observe the generator tip.  On mine the mix master pricker needle wouldn't retract far enough to allow fuel to squirt out, but would allow it to seep out and puddle on top of the tip.  Once the fuel vapors that had collected in the mantles were burned off the light went out.

I do this stuff in the kitchen, but I wouldn't recommend it. [afi_DoNotSetYour-1]
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #0510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker
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surffisher60
hate to ask .... how much fuel is in it ?   some like a lot of fuel in it .... did you try shaking it ?   (get fuel to enter the top air hole in the p/u tube). then you'll know you need to check the pick up tube / valve assy again. 
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Bob1774
Another simple test is to turn the knob with the cage off, to see if the genny is getting/peeing fuel.  You should get a very nice stream of fuel out of the tip, tried outside of course.  It's simple after you not so simply remove the cage on a 220/228...especially a B.
Bob
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scl
stretch your f/a tube spring, i had 2 like that and it worked.
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1hpycmpr
If all else fails, bring it over and we’ll see if we can figure it out!
Mark
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grob
Chuck, I examined the original nickel genny with the air tube off. I did so because I straightened out the mangled genny needle and wanted to see if it might work. Looking with a loop I saw the needle fill the gas tip jet hole just barely with the cleaner rod up. I have a brass genny from my 220E on there now and will check that as I take it apart. First I'll try one more fire after shaking the tank upside down to get fuel in the upper FA hole as surffisher suggested. Fuel level is about 1-1/2". I will give the FA spring a stretch, which I think I already did, but... I have been following the great tutorial on OTC site and also Greg's quick tear down guide.

Thank you everyone for all the great advice and I will report back, Gary
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
zoomkat
"First I'll try one more fire after shaking the tank upside down to get fuel in the upper FA hole as surffisher suggested."

Now you are getting into ritualistic superstitious  behaviors. I suggest you do basic fuel flow path trouble shooting with the lantern positioned for running. Have you made other "mods" besides stretching the fuel control rod spring? When the lantern does run, does the output cycle between low and high when you turn the cleaning lever?
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Dmacp
when he says "open all the way" he means tighten it open. That is what shuts off the air bleed.

I remember Jim had a problem and he took the lantern apart. He finally saw something way up inside the valve. It was the F/a spring, installed on top by a PO and then crushed and jammed up in there. He had to dig it out.
Dan
ICCC member #604
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Majicwrench
Just loosen generator nut and open valve, see if fuel comes out. If it does, problem is above, the generator. If no fuel comes out, problem is below.

I agree, stretching spring, shaking, turning upside down.........really??
Keith
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hikerduane
Your problem seems "up stream" of the genny as you said with another genny it still did not work.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves who's counting.
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holliswood
Gas coming from under and/or around the collar could also be the cleaning lever assembly not being tightened enough. I got excited about getting my 228d done and forgot to snug that up. 
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Looking for B-Day 1978 Armstrong MilSpec 
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Hot Diggity
I've been looking forward to hearing the happy ending to this story.  Any updates?  Solutions?
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #0510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker
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74HARLEY
If you take the valve back out make sure to check the fuel pick up tube for a crack. It happens.
Joe
looking for 200a 11-56,9-77,2-65 Coleman 275 appreciation syndicate member #0004 ICCC #1262 
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grob
I took it apart again yesterday. Everything was as it should be... spring in the right place, so I cleaned some more. No crack in the FA tube and I stretched the spring a bit (1/4"). I flushed the fount before with BBs and fuel. Today I did the BB shake with hot 50/50 vinegar/water for a couple hours and there was a lot of fine brown gunk in the coffee filter, even on the second round. The fuel I poured out was fairly clean before that though! 10 min. neutralize soak with baking soda and water. Got it to rinse clean and blew it out with the compressor and now sitting in the sun. I'll post photos of the gunk and valve parts tomorrow and put it back together. Was able to save the mantles with the air tube... so far.
Let there be light, G-Man
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
74HARLEY
Good luck, let's see some light!
Joe
looking for 200a 11-56,9-77,2-65 Coleman 275 appreciation syndicate member #0004 ICCC #1262 
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JeepJeepster
If youre still getting crap out of the tank that could very well be clogging things up. 

If it doesnt work after the most recent fettle, take the generator off and open the valve. Plenty of fuel should spray out, and under pressure, so do that somewhere outside. 

Im going with a clogged gen tip, thats why fuel is dribbling out. Sometimes the tip cleaner just isnt enough.
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grob
And lo light was seen o'er the firmament and it was good, for he shall curse the darkness nevermore.

[228b_lit_s-11013576] 
So here is the scoop. After I got it back together I was looking under a loop at the gas tips on a brass and a nickle genny with the air tube out of the way. The needle on one was not retracting out of the jet hole enough to allow it to get enough fuel to lite. it was to long in other words. I found a tiny washer in some electronic parts and put it between the fuel tip and tube to make it a bit longer and TAA DAA. The other needle had been damaged and was to short.

So, Chuck (Hot Diggity), you win the prize for figuring this out. I didn't mind taking it apart again, as I got the fount cleaned out better. No leaks!
Note: the dancing BBs started out plated and after the vinegar dance are black, so may have accounted for some of the crap coming out of the fount.
Here is a pic of the fuel valve, FA tube and cleaner assembly parts.

[valve_228bs-27381971] 
I want to thank everyone that replied and helped me figure this out. I might not have got it lit without this site and the generous people on it.
Gar
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
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1hpycmpr
Nice light up!  Wow, that was a tough one!
Mark
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grob
Hey Mark, Ya I have several days into getting this guy buffed and going. Shut down as it should and I'll light it again tonight to see if all is normal. I want to put a flint starter on it one of these days.
G-Man
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
grob
I put a tiny washer between the gas tip and the tube on the T44DL nickel genny on the left. The needle was not retracting far enough to supply the right amount of fuel to lite. Regular brass genny on the right.

[nic_brs_gens-86658867] 
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
Hot Diggity
That's a neat trick with the generator tip.  I may have to borrow that idea for some of my multifuel projects.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #0510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker
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dbosch
[valve_228bs-27381971]

Is that a split in the inner tube for the fuel/air tube?  If so, this thing will forever run in Instant-Lite mode.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
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grob
Dan, It is not a split, but a machined grove in the inner air tube to pass pressurized air through the air port in the top of the outer air tube to the bottom to pressurize the fuel. Here is a diagram I just did to show how it works. It is a redo of what Coleman had at one time, with more detail and in color.
Gar

[fuel_valv_diag_s-5747100] 
Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.
- Bugs

Boy, I say boy... you're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
- Foggy
Quote
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