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aephilli
jj wrote:
Does alchohol take less air (because the fuel has less energy)?
Has anyone tried putting in an air-adjuster?

I could try this, but I have too many broken gas appliances right now (having bad luck with stoves lately).

I would remove the color, and obstruct the air tube....??
Jody


The theory that I'm going with (and the one that seems to have worked for others) is to increase the fuel supplied for the same amount of air, by increasing the orifice size.
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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curlyjoe_99
I'm with JJ for the shade tree person. by reducing the air by approx 50% it should give the same ratio as increasing the orifice size. I do realize that while one may get a fire, it could be greatly undersized to the point that you may not be able to get the mantles to turn to the white light needed for use.

But, has anyone tried this yet? Maybe I will come warmer weather. Especially, since I work for the governemnt and am looking to be on furlough a day a week through out the summer. gotta fill one's time somehow
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

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curtludwig
I like the idea of making a variable air adjuster. A knockout from an electrical box with a right angle welded or soldered to it and a screw to adjust would be a proper job. If I were doing it (and I might come spring) I'd start with the stock gas jet and block air until it burned good. I subscribe to the theory that says you'll be down on light output at that point. The question is will that light output be a problem? Which is really another question:

Does the 200A overdrive a #21 mantle while burning CF so that the loss of heat output running on alcohol is a problem?

In fact we know that yes a 200A does overdrive a #21 mantle because a 200A will fill out a #99 nicely. If there is enough heat provided to light a #99 which is larger than a #21 then clearly the 200A makes more heat than, strictly speaking, is required. So the question really boils down to how much heat is required to light a #21?

Now of course I'm talking about running the 21 at full brightness, if you're willing to accept less than full brightness (for a nightlight or privy light maybe) then the story changes considerably but for the sake of argument I'll assume full brightness....

Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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aephilli
OK, update time. Tried my CQ last nite on 91% iso. Based on Deaf Lantern's info, I had drilled out a gas tip to .0135. (Huge thanks to Dean, could not have done it without your advice) Installed tip on brand new R55 genny and new Peerless 2C-HG mantles.
After a double preheat (201 preheat cup burned almost completely and then refilled and burned again), it ran very lean. I could get a nice white (but nowhere near blinding) light if I blocked off 1/2 to 3/4 of the air intake tube. It was very sensitive to just how much I restricted the air. To try to use this way it would definitely need an adjustable air intake system.
I have some .016, .018, and .020 bits coming. I have edited the info posted earlier about area of the orifice by size of hole for those interested.
I still believe that part of the issue with using 91% iso is that you are wasting a lot of heat burning off the water that is present.
Mr Dude, what business are you in that uses 99% iso? Or another way to ask is, where do I start looking to find somewhere to buy some?
I had said I would keep y'all updated, even on what does not work, so this is what I have so far.
At this point it does seem that it might be easier to convince SWMBO that kero fumes aren't bad for her birds......
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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aephilli
aephilli wrote:
I still believe that part of the issue with using 91% iso is that you are wasting a lot of heat burning off the water that is present.
...


Well, someone please (please, please, please) check my math, but at 19,164 BTUs per quart for iso, only using 182 BTUs for the latent heat of vaporisation for the water, doesn't seem it should have that much effect. 

Of course at 34,625 BTUs for kero & 31,250 for gasoline, shouldn't be that much of a difference in orifice size, either.

Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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aephilli
curtludwig wrote:

Now of course I'm talking about running the 21 at full brightness, if you're willing to accept less than full brightness (for a nightlight or privy light maybe) then the story changes considerably but for the sake of argument I'll assume full brightness....



I would accept less than full brightness, but as lean as this was running, it wasn't producing enough heat to vaporise the alky, similar to the problem encountered when trying to run kero lanterns at lower outputs.

Oh, and just in case anyone has the same silly idea I did, NO, kerosene and 91% iso DO NOT mix. LOL
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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aephilli
aephilli wrote:
Deaf_Lantern wrote:
Aephilli, You going use r55 generator in your old quicklite lantern, that QL dont have air feeding. It can flood before preheat the generator and it will invisble flame bomb and it may plug the tip by alcohol fluid ....... This your risk to try this ... Deaf_Lantern


NOW we're talking! THAT oughta give The Dude the flame ball he's looking for. 

..."screw it, lets see where this goes" ...  Bolt some stuff together,light it on fire and see what happens.....
  
        



(my attitude exactly, but, like a stuntman, I try to make the odds of survival in my favor)




In all seriousness, tho, thanks for the warning Deaf Lantern, and the encouragement (and help) Dude.
We'll either make it happen, or at the least let you guys know what all won't work. LOL




Side note, the flame bomb was NOT invisible!!!!



Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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Deanofid
aephilli wrote:
aephilli wrote:
I still believe that part of the issue with using 91% iso is that you are wasting a lot of heat burning off the water that is present.
...


Well, someone please (please, please, please) check my math, but at 19,164 BTUs per quart for iso, only using 182 BTUs for the latent heat of vaporisation for the water, doesn't seem it should have that much effect.

Albert, the math says that one quart of 91% iso has nearly three ounces of water that must be
vaporized and expelled.  Is the figure of 182 BTU's the amount of heat it takes to vaporize three
ounces of water?  Seems low, but I didn't look it up!

Quote:
Of course at 34,625 BTUs for kero & 31,250 for gasoline, shouldn't be that much of a difference in orifice size, either.

One more thing to consider, and mess up the math kids even more, is that alcohol fuels are
good at cooling components.  It makes a good fuel for motor sport engines in small part
to this cooling effect.  The cooler the intake on an engine, the denser the air will be for combustion.
How much difference that cooling effect makes on a lantern generator that is expected to
completely vaporize a fuel for open atmosphere combustion, I don't know.  Surely some effect..
In other words, if the alcohol is working against itself when it comes time to be vaporized
in the generator, that may account for some of the extra fuel needed to accomplish a proper
heat for a bright mantle.

Dean
Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
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aephilli
My math was along the lines of 970 btu latent heat of evap per lb water, times 8.5 lbs per gal, divided by 4, times .09 came to 182 per (the amount of water in 1) quart, at this point I'm so dizzy I dunno if that is anywhere near right. But I think your idea of cooling and working against itself is better, combined, that would explain a lot. Need to work on an easily adjustable air intake. (butterfly choke?) Might also try the "short sock" trick for the mantles, like on the 222. I'm already at almost 3 times the amount of fuel and REAL lean, so even when I get it to work, probably not gonna serve the purpose I want. Will have to go to denat alky or try to talk The Dude into shipping me some 99%. For the "after the armageddon" scenario, pure alky makes more sense, anyway. I'll hafta find "pollution facts" for kero vs CF to convince the wife, or resign myself to 15$ per gal for "inside the house" fuel.


Stay tuned for more exciting developments, kiddies.......

In the next episode, we ruin more perfectly good gas tips and try pure denatured alky. Or maybe run a pair of # 11s on a CQ with kero, homemade space heater!!!!
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
Quote
curlyjoe_99
LOL burn baby burn!
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

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Jim_l
Anyone thought of using an air adjuster like on this lamp on Terry's site ?

Matthew 5:16: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Jim-- Coleman Blues Member #014
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aephilli
Jim_l wrote:
Anyone thought of using an air adjuster like on this lamp on Terry's site ?



Don't really see how that one works, is it a rotating cover on the lower end of the air tube?
Yes, any and all suggestions on how to make an adjuster for air intakes will be given consideration and appreciated. Winning design will receive a grand prize of hearty thanks and enduring gratitude from me, and the adulation of literally dozens here on CCF.  :-)
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
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Deanofid
Albert, here is one way to make a simple air flap to try out.  You need a pair of scissors
and a soda pop can, or similar material.
Draw this shape on the opened and flattened out can, cut it out with the scissors.  It
won't be pretty, but it will be a quick and easy way to see if an air flow adjuster of
some sort will do what you want. 

Dean

Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
Quote
Jim_l
Albert, the adjuster cap is covered on the bottom. It screws up or down allowing air in through the vents on the sides of the cap.
This one looks to be all the way closed.
Here's one on a model A lamp that I have.
Matthew 5:16: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Jim-- Coleman Blues Member #014
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aephilli
Deanofid wrote:
... see if an air flow adjuster of
some sort will do what you want. 

Dean



I know it will make it "work" because I used a flat piece of metal to close off the air intake by sliding it across the opening. There was a "sweet spot" at which the mantles were bright white, not blinding like they are on CF, but good and bright. Probably with a little more fuel (four times the CF orifice area? wow, that is a lot) or smaller mantles (20s?) and less air, it should work.

That pic of the threaded air intake (and the earlier mention of electric box knockouts) gives me an idea.
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
Quote
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