200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.

JimL
Is anyone aware of any Aladdin discussion forums?   I see Aladdin collector sites that appear they have accurate nfo, but they don't even agree with each other.  For example, I have an amber short Lincoln Drape lamp.  One site claims that Aladdin never made a Lincoln Drape in amber.  Then I come across another Aladdin collector site that shows Aladdin made the Lincoln Drape in two different shades of amber.  Argh.

I also see that the LIncoln Drape is the most reproduced Aladdin, that Aladdin hasn't made them in years.  OK, just what does reproduced mean here?  Forgeries?  Another company making them under license from Aladdin?  Another company making them because there's no more copyright/patent and they added Aladdin burners? 

Searching for the info can be a bit frustrating.  A link to an active forum, if one exists, would be appreciated.  Otherwise, if anyone has answers, especially to the repro question, I'd appreciate a response. 

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
Nevada_Ed
Jim, I know there is a Washington Drape in Amber, clear, red and maybe others, for have had a few Lincoln Drapes and Washington Drapes, maybe had more than a dozen over time, slight variations in the Ivory color of the Lincoln Drapes, in part as the earliest models like the 1940 used yellow cake uranium in the glass for coloring. There is a version of the short Lincoln lamp That came in Red, Ivory, 1939, model B-62. The tall Lincoln came in Red, Blue, clear, and Ivory. The difference between the tall and the short was the pedestal and base of the lamp (1940-1949). Aladdin collectorlink and link

To make matters more confusing the revived Aladdin company started making reproductions of their old stuff, in my mind I don't consider the new and knock off stuff collectable, but it is of practical use, you can tell the new from the old Aladdin company by looking at the base of the lamp... mostly but not always. And you are correct others have made low quality knockoffs. Learn about the fill caps on the knock offs to determine the differences.

Here are some links Terryann's and Aladdin collector,  likely you have seen them already.

I started 20+ years ago with Aladdin lamps, they had a great forum, the primary one everyone joined and went to if interested in Aladdin lamps. The whole Aladdin collecting was sort of guided, if not controlled by a few elder collector/experts. They even had suggested selling prices pampletes, setup charges, as Ebay came along it pretty much crushed the pricing and fees set by collectors who had acquired there lamps from, Antique stores, estate sales, Ebay smashed the pricing structure more and more items found their way to the market place... (Ebay). Only two or three forums/bulletin boards, one dominating the others. Long story short: There developed cracks in the infrastructure, new people questioned things, but mainly a split developed with those most experienced collectors/experts. The main forum disseminated in acrimony,  heated disagreements, it was a mess for the newbies to observe. When you have the top most valued collectors dictating what was and was not disagreeing it quickly became a mess. I noticed one thing that affected it was the internet, information to be shared, found and exchanged, like Ebay it changed how people went about it.

This not meant to step on anybody's toes, just how I viewed it at the time 20+ years ago. It was from my observations there that I formed the belief that lots of open input worked best on any forum, yeah people get it wrong frequently, but when everybody gets a say the majority will sort it all out and do pretty well at getting the information correct.

Ed

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Quote
JimL
Thanks Ed.  I have a few Aladdin's now and like them a lot, but admittedly have only used one of them so far.  I don't look at my Aladdin's from a standpoint of collectability, but just wanted to know what I have, particularly with the amber short Lincoln Drape.  I know this one isn't valuable monetary-wise, especially with a date of 1981 on the bottom of the foot, but it's a beautiful lamp and I really like it.   I just wonder who actually made it.    I was thinking it was the 'new' Aladdin company, but was seeing the word repro, and it got me wondering exactly what the sites meant by that.  I can't find anything indicating who made Aladdin copies, or if it's the new Aladdin company.  I was hoping to find an active forum but have had no luck.  I'll check out the links you posted more thoroughly.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
liteitup
Jim,

I've been collecting aladdins since about 2016.  Info on aladdin lamps is seen only on a few web sites.

Ed gave some great background info that I didn’t know.

Ed mentioned the two best websites; both probably run by the two most knowledgeble aladdin experts in the world. http://aladdinlamps.com/ is a web site with new lamps.

The best live forum I've seen is found if you do a seach for facebook aladdin lamps knights, should come up with about 2,400 members. That membership has been climbing.  It is run by aladdin-us.com where they are really great people, willing to help you with any aladdin need.

Hidden in that facebook forum are truly great experts and great collectors. They go to some sort of regional events where they can buy and sell. The also have an annual event. They are held every now and then but I haven’t figured out how to find out when. Just ask some questions there. There is somebody that knows the correct answer.

ADDED - you don't have to be a member of facebook just search using the keywords above and can see what the forum is doing currently. Can't post anything but can see what they are doing.   END ADDED

That upcoming aladdin collection auction mentioned by macburner is truly a rare event where some outstanding lamps will be sold. The solitaire which is being sold is one of the ugliest lamps they made, only 1000 made usually sells for about $1,000.

Of course, you can pick up the aladdin lamp book that tells about the lamps that were made. I’ve met two great collectors at an auction and they let met get some lamps without them easily outbidding me just cause they knew I wanted them. I got a great yellow vertique with a great yellow shade that combination is really spectacular. They could of got it easily outbidding me, I really had no money.

If you want to collect aladdin lamps; there is no real resale value in metal lamps unless its a model 1. Glass lamp values can be seen on ebay. The great thing about aladdin lamps is that the wicks and mantles are still available so the lamps can run.

As to new remanufactured ones, usually the have a date on the bottom. New ones are made and there is a web site that mentions counterfeits. Look carefully at that so you won’t buy a fake.

https://imperiallightingco.com/fake-finish-and-colors-of-aladdin-glass-lamps/

https://www.realorrepro.com/article/The-latest-Aladdin-reproductions

https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Aladdin-shades-and-lamps

As to costs; getting an aladdin lamp to run is pretty pricey compared to a coleman lantern.

If you can get one to run under $90 you have done very very good. I priced my collection; it averages $122.

Some people only collect the bottom font. Others may collect the font and burner; others collect the whole lamp. I believe a lampshade can make an aladdin lamp look great. Expect to pay a starting price of $20 for a shade.

Cost break down,

Need the font, cost varies $30-450 on up.

Burner $60,

Flame spreader $15 plus shippiing.

Chimney $28 plus shipping

Wick $20 plus shipping

Mantle $15 plus shipping. Add these up and you get $175 without the shade. For a shade, add the shade holder $25-35 and the shade at least $20 so it can get very expensive. Most antique stores price the lamps at $125-$199 with our without all the parts.

However if you pick carefully, the aladdin lamp you choose will be a thing of beauty; easily more beautiful than 99% of any coleman lantern. Can you see I still like aladdin lamps.

Of course Jim, you knew most of this stuff; I just included it for others that didn’t know about it.

 

Lee
Quote
salukispeed
Good stuff here, Thanks
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
Kevin
Following.....
Quote
JimL
More good info.  Thanks Lee.  Other than mantles, the three Aladdin's I've obtained were complete.  Well, one needs a chimney, but fortunately all three that I have use the Lox-On chimneys, so I can swap.  My first one is an American Classic that I'm told was made between 1980 and 1990 and has a Model 23 burner, the second is an aluminum shelf lamp with a Model B burner made in Nashville, which puts the date between 1949 and 1955, and the latest being the short Lincoln Drape with a Model 23 burner and a date of 1981.  I know I did well with these price-wise, especially being so complete.  The Lincoln Drape one was the best deal, not just because it was only $15, but because for an extra $5, I got a new 'old' mantle and a NIB nickel burner complete with wick.  Still, I'd just like to know who made it. 

I haven't used Facebook in a long time, but will have to check that out.

A couple of great pieces of advice I've seen on this forum, and wish I noted who provided so I could give credit:  One was to ensure the base of the mantle frame was crimped tight to keep the supports from sliding out and the other was to apply some muffler cement at the top of the mantle hanger.  The combination keeps the mantle rock solid and allows me to carry the lamp outdoors and back in without fear of breaking the mantle.

Would an Aladdin lamp being produced by the current Aladdin company (Crownplace Brands) be considered a repro?  And if so, would this be because it's just not an original or antique one?

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
liteitup
Jim, added in my comment above.
Some people including me are not on facebook. If the facebook group is public you can see the posts.
added in my comment above,
ADDED - you don't have to be a member of facebook just search using the keywords above and can see what the forum is doing currently. Can't post anything but can see what they are doing.   END ADDED

Whatever company has bought out Aladdin, whoever bought it, it has all the rights and continues to design and market Aladdin parts and lamps.  Not sure if anyone had documented the *new* stuff. I'm really not interested as I like the old stuff 1930s-1950s. Aladdin-us.com sells the new stuff also. I don't remember the website that is the maker and owner of the new Aladdin lamps now.
Lee
Quote
JimL
I went back through Terryann's site and I see my lamp there.  From the top of the short Lincoln Drape lamp page:  
"To further minimize confusion, Aladdin started marking the foot of the new lamp with the year of manufacture. Early 1974 lamps were undated. Late 1974 lamps and all later lamps were dated.".    Link here: http://www.aladdinlamps.info/23SLD.htm

My amber Lincoln Drape is dated 1981 on the foot, and the amber shade on her page is just what I have, so I'm confident that mine was made by Aladdin, even if it is the 'new' company.   I'm going to do my best not to start collecting these.  I appreciate the ones I have and if the price is right, would likely get another.  These lamps are quite elegant when running and they certainly are silent.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
JimL
For those interested, the current Aladdin company is here:

http://aladdinlamps.com/

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
liteitup
O.K. Jim, you gave me an excuse to show off the brown shade I never tried on an aladdin as I didn't have an amber font, but I'm sure your amber and a shade like this would be stunning. Also my new $19 white shade I just got a few days ago. Both on a green corinthian aladdin lamp.
The non aladdin shades of course comes with the legalese disclaimer; if it gets too hot it might crack; but I haven't seen that yet in one that I have that is similar.
corinthian with brown shade 18.jpg  corinthian with white shade 18.jpg 
Lee
Quote
JimL
That green lamp is absolutely beautiful!

This is my amber Aladdin after I picked it up.  I think you're right, your amber shade would look great on it.  🙂  I really like the second shade.  It's a very warm and soothing light output.

This is not the correct chimney.  This chimney was Scotch taped to the burner.  🙂 
Amber Aladdin - reduced.jpg 

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
Rustytank
These threads threaten to take me down another rabbit hole. I was already into wickie lanterns before I found this place. I have resisted lamps though to this point. But these are really interesting to me.
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
WYSIWYG
Did someone mention rabbit hole?? It is a slippery slope be verry careful.

20191227_194251_resized.jpg  20191227_194344_resized.jpg  20191227_194453_resized.jpg  20191227_194657_resized.jpg  20191227_194420_resized.jpg  20191227_194514_resized.jpg  20191227_194308_resized.jpg  20191227_194532_resized.jpg 
John        
One in every public place...

ICCC #1338    IDITOS  #2654
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate. Member #0059
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #004
Member of CCF  Chromostereopsis  Club
Quote
Rustytank
I think I might fall lol
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
salukispeed
Weeeeeeeee! as we slip in!   I now have 2 Reyo's 6 Aladdins and had none two year ago
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
mikew
This is the only Aladdin I have and it's as far as I'm going on this slope.  Washington drape Model B.

aladdin Nutype B.jpg 
Mike
"... at evening time, it shall be light." Zechariah 14:7

Slant Saver #05 Milspec Ops 0045
Quicklite Crew #27
Perfection Heater Collectors #4
Quote
Flat_twin
That green glass is real eye candy.  This was my Dad's electrified Aladdin.  It's a very light green and looks like ice from certain angles.  It took him a while to understand why I wanted to convert it to kero.




Mark __________________________________________
Quote
WYSIWYG
Mark  put it under a black light I bet it glows !
John        
One in every public place...

ICCC #1338    IDITOS  #2654
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate. Member #0059
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #004
Member of CCF  Chromostereopsis  Club
Quote
salukispeed
That green is very pretty. Did you buy a new burner or stay with a more original "B" or "C" and Lox-On
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
WYSIWYG
Here is a pic of mine being exposed to Ultraviolet . 

DSC_7367.jpg 
John        
One in every public place...

ICCC #1338    IDITOS  #2654
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate. Member #0059
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #004
Member of CCF  Chromostereopsis  Club
Quote
Flat_twin
The font is a 1934 Cathedral style and the 1st one with the B burner so that's what I used.  

I forgot about the black light test.  LOL!  
Mark __________________________________________
Quote
parris001
salukispeed wrote:
Weeeeeeeee! as we slip in!   I now have 2 Reyo's 6 Aladdins and had none two year ago


I have found I REALLY like the Rayos. No chance of runaway and a warmer light versus the white light of an Aladdin. The Rayos won't make enough heat to break the chill in a room which makes them nicer to run in the summer months.

I swapped all but one of my Aladdins over to model Bs. Seems to be the best burner in my opinion. The single model 23 I have behaves well but the first time it tries to run away on me............ it'll be a B as well. 
Quote
Rustytank
Ok what's a runaway? I'm new to Aladdins and am in the tire kicking stage
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
WYSIWYG
It starts with a black spot on the mantle. Carbon continues to build up and the mantle starts to cool the spot getc bigger and more spots appear . This continues for a bit black smoke starts to billow from the chimney soon there is a 2 foot tall flame rising from the top of the chimney it sets the curtains on fire and your house burns down. 

If you notice it soon enough you can just turn down the wick.  But if you wait a little too long you severely burn your fingers as the whole burner is now 8000 degerees,   at this point you can just set a small plate for a tea cup on top of the chimeny and disaster will be averted. 
John        
One in every public place...

ICCC #1338    IDITOS  #2654
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate. Member #0059
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #004
Member of CCF  Chromostereopsis  Club
Quote
JimL
I think that basically, John is stating that you shouldn't try to get every last bit of brightness out of it.  If you need brighter, light a Coleman.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
Rustytank
Dang that's scary. Going to have to read up on that.
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
WYSIWYG
Rustytank wrote:
Dang that's scary. Going to have to read up on that.


Don't be scared,   some folks are afraid of Coleman lanterns. .. 

Just know what to look for and how to react. 
John        
One in every public place...

ICCC #1338    IDITOS  #2654
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate. Member #0059
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #004
Member of CCF  Chromostereopsis  Club
Quote
Rustytank
Proper knowledge is what takes the fear away. That said I've got to study up on the various mantle lamps. Flat wicks is all I've had so far.
275 Appreciation Syndicate #0245
Looking for birthday lanterns 11/58, 3/68, 3/73, 11/96, 6/97, 11/97, 12/00
Quote
salukispeed
My caboose lamp "C" burner did a run away thing.  but it was my fault for trying to get it too bright before it fully warmed up. I now don't consider it warm enough to take my eye off it for a minute until an hour or  more has passed. As the fount and burner warms the amount of Kero fumes continue to increase and it starts a vicious circle. Slow and easy to creep up on the bright setting and an occasional look to see if any yellow or brown spots are developing is needed. Then a slight turn down and all will return to normal Also a good even trimmed wick can help you get more of the mantle brightness without the over fuel condition. the hot/bright spots are the ones likely to be trouble if you try to get the dim ones to match. these are wonderful lamps but need constant attention like a naughty kid. I want to buy a Kerolite as I hear they are less trouble with run away.  
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
parris001

Rustytank wrote:
Dang that's scary. Going to have to read up on that.


Model B burners, in my opinion, are the least susceptible to running away. Once you get it set and get a light output you like you can trust it not to change and runaway. I wouldn’t trust a model 23 to run much more than two minutes at a time without going back and checking it. 


Runaways are a bad deal. I’ve had to repaint rooms after an event. It’ll make you want to get away from Aladdins. Never had a bad encounter with a model B burner though. Model 23, Nashville C and Brazilian C I won’t ever fool with again. 


Rayo lanterns don’t runaway. Cheaper too. 

Quote
Flat_twin
Glad you caught it Bob.  You're right, wick condition,  warm up time and how bright one is trying to run the lamp all figure into it.    Nothing like first hand experience, eh?   
Mark __________________________________________
Quote
Ed66Horan
Rayo lamps can run away. I have the t-shirt. They need the warm-up cycle also. I have both Aladdin and Rayo's and run them often. I adjust them to their final setting after the top of the fount is really warm. My experience is my Rayo lamp will burn about twice the amount of fuel compared to my caboose lamp with a B burner. A Rayo run-away isn't as dramatic as an Aladdin, but it makes the same black sooty smoke. I didn't wait long enough for the fuel to heat up and when it did, the flame over-reached the flame spreader and belched black smoke because the flame was starved for air. 

Ed

Sears Collector Club #66  MilSpecOps #0030 
ICCC # 1575  Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate  #212
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #38

Quote
salukispeed
These really appeal to the kid in me and Tho it is fun to play with Fire in the house. One needs a real respect for the reality that it is still fire and constant and careful monitoring is needed to keep it a safe hobby and therefor remain fun. 
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
dbosch
Quote:
you shouldn't try to get every last bit of brightness out of it


Words of wisdom, but it's hard to not try to find the edge of the cliff.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
Quote
parris001
Ed66Horan wrote:
Rayo lamps can run away. I have the t-shirt. They need the warm-up cycle also. I have both Aladdin and Rayo's and run them often. I adjust them to their final setting after the top of the fount is really warm. My experience is my Rayo lamp will burn about twice the amount of fuel compared to my caboose lamp with a B burner. A Rayo run-away isn't as dramatic as an Aladdin, but it makes the same black sooty smoke. I didn't wait long enough for the fuel to heat up and when it did, the flame over-reached the flame spreader and belched black smoke because the flame was starved for air. 


A Rayo will run away. But you've really got to work at it. 

I became partial to them during the summer months when it gets so dang hot here in the south that running a heat producing Aladdin inside just doesn't make sense. The Rayo is a nice soft yellow light as well. 
Quote
JimL
I've only used one of my Aladdin's thus far, and that was with the Model B burner.  It is extremely well behaved.  I had no concern leaving it running while I did other things.  I guess I need to try out a Model 23 burner so I know what to expect and don't get too cocky.

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. - Dave Barry
Quote
brucesheehe
I have found that bad fuel causes runaways.  Water contaminated kerosene is common.

I use Aladdin lamp fuel, or Klean Heat Kerosene Substitute.

I have been using Klean Heat Kero Substitute this winter, and it is exceptionally clean burning with no black spots on the mantle and little carbon deposits on the wick.  No sign of runaways either.

Turn them up slowly - take time to get the burner hot before you increase the flame.  Don't take them to the max output.

Aladdin lamps use a lot of fuel.  You have to watch them - you can't let them alone.

I have three lamps - two have 23 burners, and one has a 500 burner.

This is indeed a rabbit hole.  Once you find a good deal on the lamp, then the burner usually is missing parts.  Then you need a shade holder, shade, and chimney.  

There is a large spring meeting of Aladdin collectors in Wooster OH every Spring.

The Aladdin Collectors are as nuts for these lamps as are Coleman Collectors.  There is some overlap on the shades for Aladdin/Coleman as they are the same 10 inch size.
Bruce Sheehe
ICCC #889 - Connoisseur of Time, Friends, Leisure, & Coleman   Altoona, PA - The Mountain City - Near The Eastern USA Continental Divide
Quote
n9zes
I've owned my Genie II lamp since 1988 and I've run it a LOT!  I believe it's a Brazil burner and had a maddening flicker until I installed the "anti-flicker" ring that Lehman's used to sell - basically a band-aid for poor quality control.  Regardless, it worked well.  Anyway, I had my first and only runaway several years ago.  I was reading a magazine and had the lamp about 10 feet away right in front of me.  Everything was going fine, it wasn't turned up to "11", and had been running for well over an hour.  I looked up from my magazine and "HOLY SCHNICKES!!!!" I had a miniature tire fire!  I caught it fairly quickly but it still filled the room with a good deal of smoke and left a large soot stain on the ceiling, most of which washed off.

To this day I really don't know why it decided to go nuclear on me.  It may have been the kerosene as around that time I gave up on bulk kero due a poor batch that had a lot of sulfur in it, giving me fits in my Colemans, so I was burning it up in the Aladdin.  I've run Kleen Heet ever since with no issues as long as I keep it fresh.  It seems after it gets a few years old I get a lot of tip clogging in my Leacock 107 burner on a CQ fount.   
Quote
salukispeed
I only have #12-B-C burners and do not normally see flickering, and My #1 Reyo is always good but my Model #2 flickers badly just about the time I like the light output and have to back it down.  I too prefer the Kleen Heet indoors. Not cheap but nice result low smell.  little if any build up on the wick. I have never tried Jet"A" so no useful thoughts on it.
Bob
ICCC 1868
Perfection appreciation #10
Milspec 65252
Quote
Stevenbrown817
Late on the scene  here, but seems I may have at least tripped  on the edge of the rabbit hole.   I'd been wanting a caboose lamp for awhile, and finally got a pair of them as well as an amber Washington Drape which was complete less the chimney and shade/shade holder.  From what I read above, I think that since my fount has no date, it is 1974 or earlier.  I don't think my wife will put up with it if I come anywhere close to the number of Coleman lanterns, but hopefully a few will be tolerated ðŸ˜ƒ   Thanks to all above for posting all the great info.
  Washington Drape.jpg 
STEVE
ICCC 1552
Quote
Chucker
Yeah Steve, you resurrected a dead thread.

BTW, I've been told the Washington drape version in amber was 1941 and 42 only. Kind of a rare bird in Aladdin's. See this link:

http://aladdincollector.com/washington%20drape%20plain%20stem.html
Chuck
"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
Quote
misterfixit
Nice lamps!  I want to add one of mine on this thread!107053915_10219363043699405_6113720866839238028_o.jpg 
Jonathan Lowery ICC #1947
I am searching for Birthday lanterns 1/60 & 7/76
and military lanterns.

"You may think your light is small, but it can
make a huge difference in other people's lives."
Quote
Chucker
Show 'em if ya got 'em!
Chuck
"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
Quote


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