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Mbrooks63
All, I have rebuilt a 222b lantern for a friend of mine. It appears that all the part were original.

the question I have is that there is a the needle, coil and a paper like tube inside the generator housing. is that paper like tube supposed to be there? For better clarification from the outside in..you have the brass generator chamber, paper-like tube, spring-like coil, needle.

I replaced it with a new generator which a little larger than the old one and it works but it shoots out alot of fuel and becomes like a mini fire ball. when this happens I turn off the fuel know until all the excess has burned away. by that time the generator is sufficiently hot and acts like it is supposed to.

Has anyone else experienced this and how to correct this issue?

Regards,
Marcus brooks
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Deanofid
Hi Marcus;
Yes, that paper tube is supposed to be in there.  It helps the lantern not to pulse.  They are in most all of the older style generators for CF lanterns.
The new replacement gens for that specific lantern are no longer made, so the replacement you get now has a larger tip and is meant to work with a number of these miniature lanterns.  They do put out more fuel, and they also mean you have to pump up the lantern more often.  If the original generator is still good, I would put it back in there.  They run better with that type than with the new ones that fit more models.
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--http://www.deansmachine.com  ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
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HappyKamper
Mbrooks63 wrote:
All, I have rebuilt a 222b lantern for a friend of mine. It appears that all the part were original...I replaced it with a new generator which a little larger than the old one and it works but it shoots out alot of fuel and becomes like a mini fire ball. when this happens I turn off the fuel know until all the excess has burned away. by that time the generator is sufficiently hot and acts like it is supposed to.

Has anyone else experienced this and how to correct this issue?

Regards,
Marcus brooks

That right there sounds like your fuel/air tube isn't working. I'm not very familiar with the 222, but when you light a Coleman, it starts on an air circuit, giving it a mixture of fuel and air, so it doesn't flame up like yours is doing; once the generator is warm and vaporizing fuel, the air is shut off and it runs straight fuel. It sounds like you're getting straight fuel at startup. If you want to confirm this, warm the genny with a torch or matches and then try to light it.
...of course, you don't want the tip cleaner up when warming, so have the valve opened and fuel cap cracked so pressure doesn't build up. Once the genny is hot, pump up and light.

The little bit bigger genny should work fine in the 222, but it's better if you re-use the original generator.

Clayton, Great Lakes Coleman Collector, B'wanna's Porter

MilSpecOps #0009

 

II Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

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Mbrooks63
I cleaned the F&A tube really well because it was only shooting air before and no fuel. Now it shoots a stream of fuel
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JohnnyMac
HappyKamper wrote:

That right there sounds like your fuel/air tube isn't working. I'm not very familiar with the 222, but when you light a Coleman, it starts on an air circuit, giving it a mixture of fuel and air, so it doesn't flame up like yours is doing; once the generator is warm and vaporizing fuel, the air is shut off and it runs straight fuel. It sounds like you're getting straight fuel at startup. If you want to confirm this, warm the genny with a torch or matches and then try to light it.
...of course, you don't want the tip cleaner up when warming, so have the valve opened and fuel cap cracked so pressure doesn't build up. Once the genny is hot, pump up and light.

The little bit bigger genny should work fine in the 222, but it's better if you re-use the original generator.


The 222/a/b originally came with generators using fuel tips with orifices of either 0.005" or 0.0055". The 229 Dual Fuel came with a generator, that had a larger diameter tube, and uses a fuel tip of 0.006". Coleman discontinued the 222/a/b generators, and now produces only the 229 generator as a replacement. These larger fuel orifices lead to overfueling, flare-ups, and loss of fount pressure.

The 222's have fuel/air tubes, but only the early 222's actually have rods inside the the f/a tubes. These lanterns are of Coleman Canada-bred "Easi-Lite" lineage. A single knob operates as a valve control, and pricker lever. They also use O-rings as an integral part of the fuel valve. The original O-rings are prone to failure after a few years, and must be replaced.

Check the Technical Archives for additional info.
Accidental Member of the 237-B Club
"When all else fails, turn it into a Frankie!"
Lancaster Lanterns 400 CP "Toasted Retinas" Club 
"Why would someone make a 1000 CP lantern?  Because they CAN!"

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MotorcycleDan
If you are turning the fuel on without lighting and the burner frame off, it will shoot a stream of fuel out of the generator fuel jet. When lighting, put a Bar B Q lighter on the generator for 10-15 seconds before turning on the fuel. It will flair up! It should settle down after 15-20 seconds. I have 5 different models of these lanterns that are my runners. They all act a little different when lighting.

As Dean said, Your old generator should be fine and use it if you can. All the parts you described should be in there.  Do not try to take the new fat one apart! it has a crimp at the base so the parts do not come out.

The 222 uses a smaller #20 mantel. If all you have is a #21 then tie it up above the burner cap. The 21 will hang a little to low and put to much heat on the fuel valve and fount if you do not tie it up. Some have not burned in a new #21 mantle and it will shrink up to the size of a #20 without tying it up above the burner cap.  
Dan ICCC #900
ICCC Treasure
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Russn8r
Just got my 222B. Very bright, but does not completely shut off. Closest it comes to shutting off is towards the vertical. Both left and right positions are wide open. Have to loosen the filler cap, which I don't like doing while it's running. I'm guessing that's a bad o-ring symptom. (?)

I've dismantled the valve, generator and f/a tube for soaking in lacquer thinner (except for the cardboardy looking tube, which I figure would be ruined).

Also, it's an aluminum valve body. Should it be? My 229 is brass.

thanks
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zoomkat
"Just got my 222B."

Probably best to start a new discussion of the issues with your lantern.
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Coldwaterpaddler
@Russn8r how long are you waiting for it to shut off? It does take a minute or so. The 222A used an aluminum valve block, so maybe you have an early 222B and Coleman was using up inventory of the A model before they switched to the brass valve body.

If you're waiting basically forever (until you reduce the pressure by opening the fuel cap), then the issue is going to be the #005 O-ring on the bottom end of the eccentric block which is the On/Off valve mechanism. You can only get to it by removing the valve from the fount and then removing the F/A tube and the valve stem. It doesn't come out from the top, unfortunately.
222B_Valve_Parts.jpg 
Stovie-Steve
"Don't let the weather run your life" - Steve
The Coleman Blues - #95
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JimL
I second the question on how long are you waiting after you shut it off.    I don't have a 222, but my 275A works that way by design.  When vertical, it appears to be out because the pricker wire is in the orifice.  In the off position, the pricker wire is back down and the fuel is shut off, but it's burning the remaining fuel in the generator and can take a minute or two to completely go out.  If yours actually won't shut off, it would be safer to just leave it running until it's out of fuel.  One fireball from the fumes getting ignited will convince you.  🙂

-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?


I've missed you!  But I'm reloading.
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zoomkat
Well, the simple go/no go question is does it *never* shut off, or does it just take a *long time* to shut off? That should clear up if there is an issue or not.
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Russn8r
My 222B never shuts off. And it runs full blast in both the open position (counterclockwise) and "closed" position (clockwise). Almost but not quite closed in the middle.
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Russn8r
JimL wrote:
I second the question on how long are you waiting after you shut it off.    I don't have a 222, but my 275A works that way by design.  When vertical, it appears to be out because the pricker wire is in the orifice.  In the off position, the pricker wire is back down and the fuel is shut off, but it's burning the remaining fuel in the generator and can take a minute or two to completely go out.  If yours actually won't shut off, it would be safer to just leave it running until it's out of fuel.  One fireball from the fumes getting ignited will convince you.  🙂


Thanks. Mine never shuts off.  I suspect the guy I bought it from monkeyed it up somehow.  I should know when I'm done soaking and reassemble with new o-rings.
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Russn8r
@Russn8r how long are you waiting for it to shut off? It does take a minute or so. The 222A used an aluminum valve block, so maybe you have an early 222B and Coleman was using up inventory of the A model before they switched to the brass valve body.

If you're waiting basically forever (until you reduce the pressure by opening the fuel cap), then the issue is going to be the #005 O-ring on the bottom end of the eccentric block which is the On/Off valve mechanism. You can only get to it by removing the valve from the fount and then removing the F/A tube and the valve stem. It doesn't come out from the top, unfortunately.
222B_Valve_Parts.jpg 


Beautiful shot. Many thanks. Not sure what 1 x 8 is. 1mm thick? 8mm OD or ID? Do you know what it would be in the McMaster-Carr catalog? Round or flat?

Below is a link to Viton o-rings on McMaster. Not sure why it looks like a general link to McMaster.

https://www.mcmaster.com/viton-fluoroelastomer-o-rings
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zoomkat
"Thanks. Mine never shuts off.  I suspect the guy I bought it from monkeyed it up somehow.  I should know when I'm done soaking and reassemble with new O-rings."

Totally possible. If it is a Schrader valve design, then you might want to look at the patent drawings to see how the mechanical parts work together in the fuel control valve. There could be an issue with the Schrader valve not seating or leaking by. when you start pumping the lantern up, does fuel start flowing with the fuel valve supposedly closed?
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Russn8r
"There could be an issue with the Schrader valve not seating or leaking by. when you start pumping the lantern up, does fuel start flowing with the fuel valve supposedly closed?"

Thanks, yes I seem to recall that it did that. I could hear that squeaky flow noise anyway. I don't know the difference between a Schrader and the other kind of valves, so I'm not sure what it came with. Can you point me to something that illustrates?
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zoomkat
Below are links to the pdf patent documents for the Schrader valve lanterns that show how they work work. The early patent is for the lanterns that have a fuel control rod, and the later patent is for the plastic pickup tube lanterns.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/16/87/c7/f33d62d20133de/USRE29457.pdf

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b4/90/cc/0021234f7e6edc/US4522582.pdf
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zoomkat
I put a space after the https below to stop the auto down loading. Remove the space and you should be able to down load a pdf copy.

https :// patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/16/87/c7/f33d62d20133de/USRE29457.pdf

https :// patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b4/90/cc/0021234f7e6edc/US4522582.pdf
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Russn8r
Many Thanks. Don't think I have a Schrader valve, though it's hard to tell from the diagrams. Know any good diagrams of the other kind?
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Kansas John

Russ is correct, no Schrader valves in the 222 series. I imagine the #005 o-ring isn’t seating properly.  I’ve had two 222b’s give me fits with flare ups at start.  I finally figured out it was because they were passing fuel as soon as I started pumping.  


One just fixed itself somehow while the other was still an issue after 4 complete tear downs.  The problem child looked nice enough after de-shooting that it joined the display in my office instead of being added to the user shelf.

John M. Lawrence, KS
ICCC #1431

Looking for a 214 kero and REI single burner anniversary stove as well as any Coleman born on date 10/77, 1/80
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Russn8r
Kansas John wrote:

Russ is correct, no Schrader valves in the 222 series. I imagine the #005 o-ring isn’t seating properly.  I’ve had two 222b’s give me fits with flare ups at start.  I finally figured out it was because they were passing fuel as soon as I started pumping.  



Thanks, that's what I figured. The valve rings didn't look bad, didn't look new either. The prior owner slopped some nasty hard sealant around. Maybe some got on them.

The other thing is I suspect he somehow had the knob 180 degrees off. Don't know if that's possible, but if it is, maybe it explains why the lantern is full throttle in both the open and closed position and only near off in the middle.

Hopefully know in a couple days. Waiting for some f/a rings before I put it back together.

These are great little projects.

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Russn8r
222B rebuilt, lit. Sweet, but I need to figure out how to keep the handle cooler.
Many Thanks for the tips.
Can't post a pic for some reason. Alert says "can't upload...http error."
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Coldwaterpaddler
@Russn8r Just got back into internet service after a few days. Glad to hear you got it figured out. A couple questions:

1) Was the #005 O-Ring that was in the lantern when you disassembled it the blue Flourosilicone O-ring? Just curious because Viton is a harder rubber and if someone used that instead at some point it may not conform easily and therefore not seal as well.

2) What do you mean by handle? Are you referring to the bail, that is, the big loop handle? If you leave it above the lantern when running, it will get hot. I'm pretty sure all of my lanterns do this unless it's cool and/or breezy.

I was going to upload a couple of Schrader valve core photos for reference from a 400 stove, but the forum seems to have an issue right now and gave me the same error as you.
Stovie-Steve
"Don't let the weather run your life" - Steve
The Coleman Blues - #95
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Russn8r
The o-ring was black. Yep, I was referring to the bail. I want to be able to hang the lantern. Probably have to use a small chain.
Don't worry about the Schrader. Pretty sure it's not one. Looks just like my 229 valve except the 222B is aluminum.
Thanks!
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Coldwaterpaddler
@Russn8r it could be that someone replaced the original blue Fluorosilicone O-ring with a non-fuel resistant type and that's why it didn't seal. Thanks for response.

I wasn't worried about a Schrader valve. None of that style of backpacking lanterns (222, 222A, 222B, 3022, 226 and 229) used a Schrader valve. However, all of the matching single-burner stoves in the 400 series (400, 400A, 400B/Feather 400, 440, 442) did use Schrader valve cores. A Schrader valve core looks like the one you would see in a bicycle tire inner tube except the ones used on lanterns and stoves would be fuel rated.
Stovie-Steve
"Don't let the weather run your life" - Steve
The Coleman Blues - #95
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