200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
Karlm
Hello,

I'm brand new to vintage lanterns.  I've used coleman liquid fuel appliances in the past growing up, but this is my first time trying to get an old one to run.

I can get the lantern to fire, but the mantles are only partially glowing and they seem to be pulsing in brightness slightly.  I'm using fresh camp fuel and I replaced the mantles.  I've pulled out the generator and soaked the parts in goof off for a bit.  That didn't seem to help.  I can get a new generator by tomorrow.  Is that the best place to start?  Is there a good way to clean the air tubes in place, or do I need to bite the bullet and pull those for a cleaning as well?  Thanks for any help.  This is the first of what will probably be several coleman appliances that my wife wants to get to match our vintage camper trailer.

Karl
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Murff
Hi Karl!

Welcome to the CCF!

This might help: http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/re_2lant.php

Murff

Name: Murff   ICCC Member #726 
Coleman Blue's 243's #002   Ebay Handle: Happy-campers2 
Soon-to-be EX-ICCC Newsletter Editor & Coleman Addiction Enabler
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Majicwrench
Does lantern pump up well?? You should go 30-40 pumps and it should be getting harder and harder to pump.
Are you spinning tip cleaner?? does it get brighter when you do?
Welcome!
Keith
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Karlm
Hello,

Yes, I am getting 30-40 pumps no problem.  It seems to be holding pressure fairly well. I am spinning the tip cleaner.  Should I do that while the lantern is on?  I've been doing it with it turned off.  Sorry, I'm new...

Majicwrench wrote:
Does lantern pump up well?? You should go 30-40 pumps and it should be getting harder and harder to pump.
Are you spinning tip cleaner?? does it get brighter when you do?
Welcome!
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Majicwrench
You can spin it with lantern running, and as lever goes up lantern should dim, then get bright as cleaner points down.  Does it dim and brighten?? The point of tip cleaner is to clean tiny pieces of crud out of tip, normal to need to spin tip cleaner, esp if lantern has been sitting.

Does it get harder to pump?? By 40 pumps you should be straining a bit..
Keith
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74HARLEY
What Keith said... And welcome from Washington!
Joe
looking for 200a 11-56,9-77,2-65 Coleman 275 appreciation syndicate member #0004 ICCC #1262 
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Karlm
Hello,
At 40 pumps it is more firm but I'm not really straining.  I don't have a full tank of fuel in it if that makes a difference.  I just went out and spun the cleaner while running and that seems to help quite a bit.  It does dim and brighten normally.  It's gone from about 20% of the mantles glowing bright white to about 80%.  I placed an order for a new generator from Amazon and a few other things from Old Coleman Parts.  I was only planning on getting this running and moving on as I have waaaay too many other hobbies, but I am having fun.
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Majicwrench
At 40 pumps (if pump was working well) would be tough to push....but that is pretty subjective.
 Yeah, they are fun...pictures??
Keith
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Karlm

Hello,

I did the motor oil trick on the plunger seal.  It is definitely adding and holding pressure.  Ran it for a bit tonight after getting back from a meeting.  It is running stronger than ever.  It is still pulsing as it burns.  Its like it is wheezing almost.  Turning the cleaning rod helped a lot.  I'll try out the new generator in the morning.  If that doesn't help, then I'll have to dig deeper.

Here is a picture.  The ventilator is in good shape other than some chipping around the thumb knob.  I had a lot of black plastic melted to it, but I was able to clean that off with a razor knife without damaging the porcelain.  The paint on the fount is pretty good.  The globe isn't original and the brass filler cap is a new one-piece.  The striker is a nice add-on.  I don't know if I'll keep it, but it is handy.  Got it for $20.


IMG_9838.jpg 
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Gand28
Where else can you take things apart, put them back together and then light them on fire?  Drop the other hobbies!  We’ve got you now!
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
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zoomkat
"It is still pulsing as it burns"

Pulsing is usually due to low tank pressure, resulting in a fuel supply oscillation.
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Coleman Sunrise
Add more fuel?
A cap of seafoam in with fuel..
Then 40 solid pumps......
?? 
-Chris
Coleman Slant Saver #48
Canadian Blue Syndicate #56
Coleman Blues #148
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74HARLEY
Looks pretty nice!
Joe
looking for 200a 11-56,9-77,2-65 Coleman 275 appreciation syndicate member #0004 ICCC #1262 
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holliswood
My 220e did that. Have you tested the check valve? Mine would build some pressure, even with a new pump cup, but not ever get totally pressurized. Had to remove my check valve in order to get it fully clean. Tried soaking it for several nights and wouldn’t budge. 

After the initial start up, when you open the pump one turn and leaving the hole in the pump uncovered, does it get dimmer? If the check valve is working properly, no air should leave the fount. 
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Looking for B-Day 1978 Armstrong MilSpec 
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Karlm
Hello,

With the hole uncovered and the pump open air does leave the fount.  I guess I need to pull that next.

holliswood wrote:
My 220e did that. Have you tested the check valve? Mine would build some pressure, even with a new pump cup, but not ever get totally pressurized. Had to remove my check valve in order to get it fully clean. Tried soaking it for several nights and wouldn’t budge. 

After the initial start up, when you open the pump one turn and leaving the hole in the pump uncovered, does it get dimmer? If the check valve is working properly, no air should leave the fount. 
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Majicwrench
With all due respect, that is why you turn the pump clockwise to positively close the check valve.  The check valve itself is NOT a positive seal. Any lantern will get dim if pump unscrewed. 

Check valves can be cleaned in place, piss some carb cleaner down the hole and pump it thru. 

And a little pulsation is perfectly normal.
Keith
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Chucker
What Keith said. Also, if the new generator doesn't quite to the trick I haven't seen where you open the  valve all the way. Do you? 
Chuck
"Stop being angry, and forget about getting back at people; do not worry -- it only causes harm." Ps. 37:8
Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
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curtludwig
Pulsing on the 2 mantle lanterns is pretty common, sometimes it goes away when the lantern gets really hot after running a couple hours.
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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holliswood
Majicwrench wrote:
With all due respect, that is why you turn the pump clockwise to positively close the check valve.  The check valve itself is NOT a positive seal. Any lantern will get dim if pump unscrewed. 

Check valves can be cleaned in place, piss some carb cleaner down the hole and pump it thru. 

And a little pulsation is perfectly normal.


From my experience, once the lantern has been pumped to the suggested amount, then closing the pump fully, the lantern is lit. After the lantern has been lit and has ran for a bit, more pressure can be added. When the pump is turned counter clockwise to add more air, after the initial pumping, air is not supposed to leave the fount. Is this not correct? Isn’t the pressure in the fount supposed to push against the ball in the check valve in order to keep gas and air in? Am I taking what you’re saying wrong?
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Looking for B-Day 1978 Armstrong MilSpec 
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curtludwig
You are correct but a leaking check valve is very common. Its probably they all leak a tiny amount, the ball and seat are only so precise and air is sneaky. Locking the pump stem is positive shut off, both are brass (and soft) and the pressure of the threads lock them together making an air tight seal.
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Majicwrench
@holliswood,  you're close to being right.... the check valve is there to keep all the pressure from rushing back out of font, but......the check valve is not a positive seal.... it will always leak some, that is why the air stem is there.

Check valves that leak a LOT of air can be cleaned/repaired. But again, they all leak some, and you cannot leave air stem unscrewed and expect lantern to run for long.

I had check valve that was missing the little ball. You could still get lantern to pressurize and run!! but of course is wasn't right.
Keith
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zoomkat
"Isn’t the pressure in the fount supposed to push against the ball in the check valve in order to keep gas and air in? Am I taking what you’re saying wrong?"

The ball in the check valve is NOT designed to be a positive seal (just used for the pumping operation),where as the needle valve in the pump assembly IS the positive seal (opened before pumping, closed after pumping). The start/run lanterns usually need to be repressurized after the fuel control valve is put in the run position. During the start operation, significant amounts of air from the tank is used.  
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holliswood
Majicwrench wrote:
@holliswood,  you're close to being right.... the check valve is there to keep all the pressure from rushing back out of font, but......the check valve is not a positive seal.... it will always leak some, that is why the air stem is there.

Check valves that leak a LOT of air can be cleaned/repaired. But again, they all leak some, and you cannot leave air stem unscrewed and expect lantern to run for long.

I had check valve that was missing the little ball. You could still get lantern to pressurize and run!! but of course is wasn't right.


I understand. The 220e I have would never build pressure very well and would dim quickly after initial light up and attempting to repressure. When I say quickly, I am guessing within two seconds of opening the pump. It had old RUG in it when I bought it and could never get the check valve fully cleaned until it was fully removed. After that, it’s a beast. 
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Looking for B-Day 1978 Armstrong MilSpec 
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holliswood
curtludwig wrote:
You are correct but a leaking check valve is very common. Its probably they all leak a tiny amount, the ball and seat are only so precise and air is sneaky. Locking the pump stem is positive shut off, both are brass (and soft) and the pressure of the threads lock them together making an air tight seal.


I didn’t specify the amount of a leak, like very little to hurricane force leakage. If he’s having a quick drop off versus slow, there would be concern if it were mine. 

No hard feelings to anyone, was just a problem in mine that resembles the OP’s lantern. 
Mil-SpecOps #1278
snipesfred on Insta
Looking for B-Day 1978 Armstrong MilSpec 
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NWMike
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet.  Along with the other things suggested I've had good luck getting rid of the pulsing by installing a new seal on the fuel cap.  Since you have a replacement cap already you could try replacing that seal or installing a new cap.
If closing the seat on the pump gets rid of your problem then, "NEVERMIND".😁
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zoomkat
"I've pulled out the generator and soaked the parts in goof off for a bit.  That didn't seem to help.  I can get a new generator by tomorrow.  Is that the best place to start?"

What was the condition of the fiber tube in the bottom of the generator? I think the fiber tube acts somewhat like a sponge/fuel buffer to dampen fuel flashing as it enters the hot generator tube. If it is gummed up it may not be performing this function, resulting in fuel flashing/pulsing behavior.
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Karlm
Wow,  a bit to catch up on.  Yes, I have run the lantern with he fuel valve fully open.  I think the fuel cap is sealing pretty well.  I can check on a new gasket though.  When I open the pump without my finger over the hole it it bleeds down slowly over a few seconds.  After it bleeds down, there is still some pressure in the fount because I can hear the pressure releasing if I crack open the fuel cap.  As far as the fiber tube, it was fairly black and gummy looking.  There was black residue on the spring as well.  It looked like used motor oil.  Still waiting on the Amazon truck and the new generator.  I will also top off the fuel tank.  I've been running it about 1/4 full because I didn't want to waste a fuel tank of fuel if I had to dump it back out.
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curtludwig
I pretty much always have to replace the fuel cap gasket on the 3 piece caps. I've even had to re-replace some that I replaced 10 or more years ago...
Curt

2017 ICCC Convention Host

BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #019

http://www.youtube.com/c/lanternlabs
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Majicwrench
Pump it up, piss a little soapy water around fuel cap, if it doesn't bubble it's fine.
Keith
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atomicbee
Maybe FA tube has gunk or intermittent obstruction?
 Bally Coleman Bill
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Karlm

Thank you for all of the help.  I think I have it sorted.  It is burning bright and strong with only the slightest of flickers.  Unfortunately while searching for parts lanterns on c-list, this happened....  On to the next one.  The 228E will need the most work as the fount has paint loss and the ventilator has a bunch of dull spots.

L-R '76 220J, '61 220E, '51 228E



IMG_9844-1.jpg 
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Majicwrench
Flicker is normal.  Good on ya.
Keith
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74HARLEY
This happened.... Yeah we've all heard that before! Now you really need to get after that shelf building project while you can! Because this happens often, like all the time. Nice to know we hooked another one!
Joe
looking for 200a 11-56,9-77,2-65 Coleman 275 appreciation syndicate member #0004 ICCC #1262 
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