200A and 202 reproduction
frames back
in stock.
Lanterndude
First allow me to explain......

Working on a 220E lantern that was bought from a fellow member here, he said he had not tested it but that it held pressure. The lantern is in very good condition. Sure enough, lantern will not light, just blows air. 

Read up on this known problem of lanterns just blowing air, etc., from what I've mostly read, it appears that the root of this problem is the F/A tube?  So before I proceeded to tear it completely down I first remove and inspect the Generator and determine that the small round cardboard section is not good, looked too dark and used up so I buy a new one and first replace it to see if the lantern will fire up-no go? So I proceed to tear it completely down, start to inspect the F/A tube and to my surprise it really looks good? But still decide to clean absolutely every part just to make sure, for a fresh start.

Put everything, every small bit part, yes even took apart the F/A tube (with exception to the new Generator, but even put the old one that came with it in there) that had been taken apart in a bowl filled with White Vinegar, placed on a stove and let it boil for about an hour.

Afterwards let it all cool down and everything comes out looking much better than when I first put it in. Use Steel Wool #000 and commence to polishing every bit and piece, everything comes out looking, well excellent, brand new almost! The vinegar removed all that black stuff, so I start to slowly and carefully assemble every bit, small and large piece back together, taking my sweet Texas time doing so as well as checking and making sure every part is functioning as it should as I go along.

Once everything is put back together, then comes the big moment, add fuel to the tank, start to pump, something like 50-60 pumps! Turn the 'Cleaning Needle' to 'down' then turn the "Valve" a bit more than a quarter turn, hear hissing, apply match and well nothing-just air blowing out?....again!

The 200E looks really sweet all cleaned up and all but with only one major problem, it won't light!

I started to review what I did and how I did it. Went back and checked everything that I possibly could to see if I could get it going but always the same result, just blows air.

I take it that this just might mean that I would have to replace the entire F/A tube section or ?

I'd like to hear y'all's thoughts, suggestions and or opinions on what you might think I possibly did wrong or incorrectly? 

Thanks in advance.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
cosmogs
If the generator is off and you apply pressure and open the valve - does any CF come out of the valve assembly?


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Gavercronos
How long are you leaving it open? My 220Es can take up to a minute and a half to start spitting fuel.
Other thing, if you're not getting any at a quarter turn, open it wide up and see what happens. If fuel, the orifice at the bottom of the FA tube needs a better cleaning- some fuel should still be moving through it even with the rod down. If no fuel, there's a hole in it that shouldn't be there somewhere.
Other other thing, how much fuel is actually in there? It works better if it's at least half full.
WillCat

Chautauqua County, New York
Slant Saver [svg]

Wanted: GPA dated 5/89 (Red 286?  Black Powerhouse? 508? Early Unleadeds?) Vintage Sunbeam Mixmaster bowls and accessories, Ruby-cased 10in lamp shade, 7D Mag-lite
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Lanterndude
cosmogs wrote:
If the generator is off and you apply pressure and open the valve - does any CF come out of the valve assembly?
Yes, with Gen. removed, spurts of CF does come out of the Valve Assembly.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
cosmogs
Lanterndude wrote:
cosmogs wrote:
If the generator is off and you apply pressure and open the valve - does any CF come out of the valve assembly?
Yes, with Gen. removed, spurts of CF does come out of the Valve Assembly.


Then fill her up, pump pressure, pre heat the generator, open the valve fully and turn the tip cleaner constantly while trying to light, it will light! Can take some time to get the fuel through the system and the new generator, and they often "act out" a bit after cleaning until settling down. [thumb]

I don´t believe your new generator is clogged, but if you don't succeed with your new gen, try the old one?


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Lanterndude
Gavercronos wrote:
How long are you leaving it open? My 220Es can take up to a minute and a half to start spitting fuel.
Other thing, if you're not getting any at a quarter turn, open it wide up and see what happens. If fuel, the orifice at the bottom of the FA tube needs a better cleaning- some fuel should still be moving through it even with the rod down. If no fuel, there's a hole in it that shouldn't be there somewhere.
Other other thing, how much fuel is actually in there? It works better if it's at least half full.


I have left the valve open anywhere from 30 sec. to about a minute and yes have fully opened the valve as well.
As for the F/A tube as mentioned before I boiled it for an hour in white vinegar, then cleaned it and made sure by looking through the large opening and seeing daylight come throught the very small hole on the other side.

I will try and fill the tank up half way, see if that helps? Also I don't have any mantles tied on because I really don't want to waste them by burning them out so it should light regardless, right?

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
cosmogs
Should get a blue flame also without mantles, just not as steady as with the mantles.
But steady enough to show you that it´s working and wants to burn! : )


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Lanterndude
Alright filled the tank with CF, pumped it up, fully opened the valve, moved the cleaning needle several times, a lot of hissing n air blowing but no light.

Man, talk about disappointment and I was really hoping to get this particular one lit for tonight [frown]

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
cosmogs
Since there´s fuel coming out of the valve assembly, tried the old generator, or another tip?
I still believe your baby is about ready to burn.
I have often experienced some initial start up problems after a full FFR, but they do start up, eventually!
Don´t give up on it! : )


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Lanterndude
Thanks for the tips n for sure I'm not giving up on it, paid for it, cleaned it all up n looks great, just won't light!

I'll just have to keep trying.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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Majicwrench
 LIke others have said, if with genny off, fuel comes out when you open valve, it will light, or genny has an issue. Spin cleaning lever many many times. As well as a hiss, it should change to a spitting sound, that is fuel, even then, it often take a while to get enough up to make er go.
 
Keith
Quote
kb0hae
Hi.  I agree with Keith.  Open the valve until you hear it hissing.  Listen carefully.  after a minute or so you should hear a sputtering sound, and smell fuel.  If not, open the valve all of the way and see if it sputters.  As soon as you hear it sputter, shut of the valve, and wait a minute for any fuel to dissipate. Light a match and hold it under the mantle, and open the valve just intil you hear the hiss and sputter.  At this point it should light. 

If it never sputters, something is clogging the generator, since you had fuel coming from the valve with the generator off.  Did you clean the air tube, burner tubes,   and mixing chamber?  If there are spider webs, just soaking these parts in vinegar or blowing air through will not remove them.  You must get a frayed wire or a pipe cleaner through them to make sure.  I would not remove the mixing chamber from the air tube, as this joint is prone to leaks if taken apart.  Are you using fresh Coleman Fuel?  Is the inside of the fount  clean?  You might pour the fuel out of the lantern through a coffee filter into a jar, just to see if there are any small particles in it.  It doesn't take much to clog the generator tip.  Just a few thoughts to try to help. 
Its always darkest before you light the Coleman lantern!
In Rock We Trust!
Martin
Quote
Ed66Horan
Try everything everyone has suggested above. Take a round toothpick and poke in the opening of the tube. Turn it a couple of times to dislodge any crud that may have built up. You should be able to pass some air through it after the rod is poking through the hole when you blow on it. There is the remote possibility that the inner tube of the F/A assembly has come loose at it's crimp and is leaking air. I had one do that and the only cure was to replace it. Let us know how you make out.

Ed

Sears Collector Club #66  MilSpecOps #0030 
ICCC # 1575  Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate  #212

Quote
rangler
Is your fuel good.? I have bought a gallon that was mostly, if not all, water. I ftgured someone used the fuel, filled the can with water, took the can back for a refund?
---Randall----ICCC member #1143---
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JMull
Use a LONG stemmed Cotton Swab - that you can get for free if your wife/girlfriend/lover works in an Emergency Room of a local hospital.  JAMB it up the F/A qssembly and twirl it around.  I have been know to wet the cotton tip with either mineral spirits or denatured alcohol before I start jambing. If that doesn't help, I have a 6 pound sledge hammer in my shed, one or two wacks should end your need to light that thing.
JIM MULL - from Jersey: #7 in Sears, #115 in Turds, #1948 in Mil-Spec, #48 in BernzOmatic, #1 in Cecilia's Heart.
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Lanterndude
Thanks everyone for y'alls tips, suggestions and recommendations.

Yes, using 'good' CF, would never think of putting anything else, still hear some fuel gurgurling when the valve is turned on, well gave it a go round again, pumped it round 80 times and when I turned the valve a very quick burst shot out of one of the tubes like it wanted to light. But afterwards, just air blowing.

Damn, I'd really hate to have to take it all apart again but I know everything was cleaned, I checked every part out? It is using the new Generator that I purchased so I have eliminated that as a possible problem, and yes I made sure that it was functioning as it should?

As I previously mentioned, when I re-assembled everything I made, specifically, sure that the F/A tube functioned as it should by moving the valve stem and watching the small pin protrude through the small hole several times, prior to installing all that section back into the fount/tank?
I checked and made sure each part functioned as I was re-assembling, each section.


I'll just have to keep going at it!

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
curlyjoe_99
my offer.
either mess with it as is, assembled, or take it back down and test some things.

assembled:
with fuel in it, no pressure in the fount but the cap tight, open the valve fully. give the lantern a major shake up and down.
let set about a minute then pump 3 or 4 times and close the valve. finish your pump sequence and open the valve 1/4 and light. immediately open fully if it catches.

what you have done is prime the FA circuit and if the FA inner tube is intact it will force fuel upwards.
you should get the blue flames at the burner caps this way. twirl the cleaning lever while trying to light

If this works, then you can test again by repeating the sequence but not shaking the lantern.

take it apart:
you want to test the FA tube for leaks. clean it off because you have to blow through it.
at the larger end, blow through and you should get air out the bottom. now put a finger over the bottom and blow. you should get air out the two little holes where the thinner FA tube mates with the thick part/hex head. now, cover those hole as well and blow. you should feel the blockages or hear, feel the air escaping. you can also do this in a glass of water if you can rig an air hose.
If the FA checks out, put it on the valve and repeat the process by blowing into the top of the valve.
also, consider a sealer on the threads wehre the FA tube screws into the bottom of the valve.

this is what I can offer and hope it helps
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

Quote
Lanterndude
Thanks Curly, I'll give it a shot.


P.S. when I had the lantern completely disassembled, I did check the fount/tank and it is clean, no rust or residue whatsoever.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
Murff
Couple things not mentioned;

Before tearing it down, pump it up, open the valve wheel, tilt the lantern 90 degrees so fuel goes to the top of the F/A tube and listen for the "gurgle" as should have like it is going to light. If you hear it, set the lantern back down and listen to tell if it continues. If not, your pick up tube isn't picking up fuel. Dirty fount or something clogging it.

As you start the tear down, if you must, when you have the burner assembly off, re-install the tip cleaner and put the generator back on. Pump it up and open the valve wheel and see if fuel is coming out of the gennie. If so, you know the fount is clean, at least.

Murff

Name: Murff   ICCC Member #726 
Coleman Blue's 243's #002   Ebay Handle: Happy-campers2 
Soon-to-be EX-ICCC Newsletter Editor & Coleman Addiction Enabler
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Lanterndude
Curly, I did as you instructed, "assembled" of course and Yes! Minor Success! 

The 220E fired up, blue flames n all!

I did this a couple more times with basically the same results but it would not stay lit?


curlyjoe_99 wrote:
my offer.
either mess with it as is, assembled, or take it back down and test some things.

assembled:
with fuel in it, no pressure in the fount but the cap tight, open the valve fully. give the lantern a major shake up and down.
let set about a minute then pump 3 or 4 times and close the valve. finish your pump sequence and open the valve 1/4 and light. immediately open fully if it catches.

what you have done is prime the FA circuit and if the FA inner tube is intact it will force fuel upwards.
you should get the blue flames at the burner caps this way. twirl the cleaning lever while trying to light

If this works, then you can test again by repeating the sequence but not shaking the lantern.

take it apart:
you want to test the FA tube for leaks. clean it off because you have to blow through it.
at the larger end, blow through and you should get air out the bottom. now put a finger over the bottom and blow. you should get air out the two little holes where the thinner FA tube mates with the thick part/hex head. now, cover those hole as well and blow. you should feel the blockages or hear, feel the air escaping. you can also do this in a glass of water if you can rig an air hose.
If the FA checks out, put it on the valve and repeat the process by blowing into the top of the valve.
also, consider a sealer on the threads wehre the FA tube screws into the bottom of the valve.

this is what I can offer and hope it helps

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
GForceKaras
Just a shot in the dark here but based on what was suggested by Robert means that fuel is passing through the "air" hole in the F/A tube but not coming up at the end of the tube itself. My thoughts would be that when Orlando reinstalled the F/A assembly, he might've bottomed the tube to where the tip is sitting against the floor of the fount? This would still allowed air to pass per the instant light circuit but no fuel even when the valve was opened all the way.

I am no means an expert but that's the only thing I can think of at the moment. 
Thien TAS member #2750 / Sears Collectors Club #1
Looking for a Sears Ted Williams lantern (FOUND! Thanks Sean!)
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity" - Darkness
Quote
Gand28
I was thinking generator issue, but after your last post it is definitely a blockage in the F/A tube. I think up need to disassemble, clean and reassemble. Something is plugging the bottom fuel intake.
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
Quote
Lanterndude
Is that even possible for the F/A tune to "bottom out", as you mentioned, by not allowing significant clearance between the end of the F/A tube and the bottom surface of the fount/tank for fuel to get through just air?

Is this even remotely possible? Even after re-assembly of the F/A tube section back into the fount/tank?

When I reinstalled that section back into the fount/tank I did tighten it down so that no leakage of fuel or pressurized air leakage would be possible but really not thinking that the F/A tube would bottom out? But I guess anything is possible and at this point nothing should be ruled out? Then again, I did as Robert instructed and it lit up but would not stay lit? If the F/A tube was bottomed out, when I re-installed it, would this still be allowed for it to at least light for a bit?

GForceKaras wrote:
Just a shot in the dark here but based on what was suggested by Robert means that fuel is passing through the "air" hole in the F/A tube but not coming up at the end of the tube itself. My thoughts would be that when Orlando reinstalled the F/A assembly, he might've bottomed the tube to where the tip is sitting against the floor of the fount? This would still allowed air to pass per the instant light circuit but no fuel even when the valve was opened all the way.

I am no means an expert but that's the only thing I can think of at the moment. 

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
REJ2
Are you still lighting it without a mantle tied on, as you mentioned earlier?
Bob    
Never, ever, leave behind a $5 lamp
MilSpecOps Syndicate #016
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0131
Coleman Blues 243 #86
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #047
ICCC #1574
Quote
Lanterndude
REJ2 wrote:
Are you still lighting it without a mantle tied on, as you mentioned earlier?


Yes, I have yet to put mantles on it but with or without mantles it should still light.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
Gand28
If you get fuel and light without mantles, it should light with them as well.

It may be posdible to bottom out the FA tube. I think you need to remove, examine and reinstall.
Greg -- Fiat Lux!
ICCC Member #1273
Seeker of Canadian Nickel!
Quote
REJ2
My thinking is the heat from the mantles helps to vaporize the fuel in the generator for a smoother burn, especially if its cooler outside. I tried the no mantle thing one time this winter and wasn't at all impressed, it wouldn't stay lit very long, it would blow itself out.
Bob    
Never, ever, leave behind a $5 lamp
MilSpecOps Syndicate #016
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0131
Coleman Blues 243 #86
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #047
ICCC #1574
Quote
fatherof31970
This is just a shot in the dark for you but if you are getting fuel without the gen on then you might want to try this.  Something I have ran into before.  New Coleman gens are nothing special and can fight you.  Is the new gen a brand new one or NOS?  Get everything on there.  Pump the daylights out of it with the usual 2/3 full fount of fuel.  Crack her open half a turn and while waiting for the gurgle spin the daylights out of the tip cleaner.  A nice steady and slow pace.  I am betting after a bit you are going to get a gurgle and it will light and still fight you.  Keep up the spinning and it might just take off.  I have ran into this before with the new gens and after you get them lit and let them run for a couple hours you will be fine.
"Sit tall in the saddle, Hold your head up high Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky And live like you ain't afraid to die And don't be scared, just enjoy your ride" From "The Ride" by the late Chris Ledoux. Ed, Moscow, Idaho 
Quote
Moses_Yoder
If it is lighting when turned 90 degrees that means when upright it is not getting fuel through the F/A tube like it should with the valve partially open. It is possibly defective in some way, or possibly assembled wrong. If you take the generator off and open the valve a 1/4 turn or so you should get a lot of fuel running all over the place, not just a little bit. Well, a lot is subjective but if you are just getting little spurts something is wrong with the F/A assembly. The 220 is very common, you could get new parts for it fairly cheap, or take another one apart and compare the assembly. 
Moses D Yoder/Mose/Mo ICCC #1452
Sears Syndicate # 651 / 275 Appreciation Syndicate #159 / Slant Saver #22
Psalm 97:11 Light shines on the righteous and joy on the upright in heart.

 
Quote
Moses_Yoder
When pumping does it get hard to pump, pressure built up? Have you checked your cap seal? Just trying to think of everything. 
Moses D Yoder/Mose/Mo ICCC #1452
Sears Syndicate # 651 / 275 Appreciation Syndicate #159 / Slant Saver #22
Psalm 97:11 Light shines on the righteous and joy on the upright in heart.

 
Quote
cosmogs
I got inspired by your thread to light my very first lantern and also my very first FFR - my 8/67 220F.
I´m glad I did, I love this lantern and it´s an exellent runner!
So, my hope is that my "Grandma Green" can be a reminder and inspiration for you -
keep at it, it wants to light! [thumb]

FullSizeRender-25.jpg 


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Lanterndude
Again, everyone, many thanks to y'all for all your help, suggestions and recommendations! It gives me more determination and hope, not to give up.

Yes, the fuel cap does have a good seal and that was one of the first things checked when I first got the lantern also it makes a good seal once the cap has been screwed on tight, no pressurized air leakage.

Also, when the F/A tube was completely disassembled, every bit part, and after an hour of boiling in White Vinegar and then cooled, I do recall reading a couple of times, in previous post about the F/A tube section, to stretch out the spring a bit?   Which I did.


Is there really more than one way to install the "spring" back in the F/A tube? Can someone explain the following in specific detail:

.........make sure it is on the right side of the FA rod. ?


When I reassembled the F/A tube section back together I first put the spring back on over the small needle, then inserted that whole section back in the tube? Was that the correct way or incorrect?







"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
Lanterndude
Unfortunatelly I will not be able to mess with it anytime today since my wife and I have an out of town trip today (going to visit a vinyard and resturant in the Texas Hill Country, ya I promised her).

"BUT!" this does not mean that I have not given up on it, by no means!

If we get back in time-believe me I will definitely get back on it and see if I can achieve better results.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
curlyjoe_99
lots of great advice.
all I can offer is more tests.
this is an E so not too easy to break down.
do you have access to compressed air? my thinking is to see if you can force air down the tip cleaner where the e block is.
remove the generator, remove all fount pressure & fuel cap, put the air hose tip on the cleaner (it must be air tight -ish)
Open valve all the way, force the air through, you should hear a little bubbling. you can force air into the filler but you will get fuel spraying out the tip cleaner.

drain the fount, aim a light into the filler and you should be able to see where the  pickup and the bottom meet. there should be a slight air gap

other wise tear it down again and get a camera to document the process. a part of me is wondering if the FA rod spring is installed or not below the FA rod square so it pushed the rod upwards.
do that test I described and repeat it from the pickup side as well. Also visually make certain that the FA rod retracts enough during this process

the saga continues
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

Quote
Lanterndude
Geir, cool thanks so much for the inspiration!


cosmogs wrote:
I got inspired by your thread to light my very first lantern and also my very first FFR - my 8/67 220F.
I´m glad I did, I love this lantern and it´s an exellent runner!
So, my hope is that my "Grandma Green" can be a reminder and inspiration for you -
keep at it, it wants to light! [thumb]

FullSizeRender-25.jpg 

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
cosmogs
There´s really just one way, but if one try hard enough, one can still do it wrong. [cool]
So just in case:

Correct:
FullSizeRender-26.jpg 

Incorrect:
FullSizeRender-27.jpg


Walking the Kerosene trail
(Just west of Mica Valley)
Geir, Norway

8 lanterns to go! [angel]

Quote
Majicwrench
Even if, somehow, you got the spring on backwards, it should still light.

Never been fond of the "stretch the spring" advice. All it has to do is lift that skinny little pin. If it won't, find the problem.

Earlier on you said fuel spurts out of valve ass with genny removed. I would repeat that test, like MY said above, enough fuel should come out that it make a mess, if only tiny spurts come out you have a problem. If plenty of fuel comes out, pu the genny on, twirl that cleaning lever and light it.
Keith
Quote
curlyjoe_99
yea coming back in, I agree with Keith. fill the fount. no 1/2 measures here. lol

tie on your mantles burn them in and give it a go. a lantern will not burn blue too long without the mantles on.

I think you are there
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

Quote
Lanterndude
curlyjoe_99 wrote:
yea coming back in, I agree with Keith. fill the fount. no 1/2 measures here. lol

tie on your mantles burn them in and give it a go. a lantern will not burn blue too long without the mantles on.

I think you are there



Thanks Curlyjoe & Keith for the advice.

I will give it a go later this morning, just finished breakfast and now sipping on coffee and of course reading post here on the forum. I'm positive that the F/A tube was re-assembled correctly because when I re-assembled all those parts back together I first checked to make sure that it was functioning as it should by attaching the Valve to the assembly and turning it, watching the small pin move in and out of the small hole. Also by looking at the pictures Geir posted, it is just as the one picture under "correct".
Curlyjoe, first I'll give it a shot as you previously instructed, assembled of course, a couple times just to make sure then tie on mantles and try to restart it, also the lantern already has a full tank of CF from the day before.

Hopefully I'll get it to light today? [colemanlanternlogo]

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

Quote
Lanterndude
Alright, after a couple of attempts, results were negative. Began to disassemble it completely,down to every bit part. Re-inspected each part. As mentioned before everything was previously assembled correctly and in order.

I suspect two possibilities here.

First I just may have tighten the entire valve, F/A tube and all, assembly too far down into the fount/tank, causing it to bottom out? Which this "could" have prevented it from actually performing well and not lighting as it should?

Secondly, this next question/theory depends on if this is right or wrong? While inspecting and examining the F/A tune, which by the way was previously assembled correctly and installed correctly, I noiced that the actual entire tube itself, at the crimped part/section, has a slight "play" to it? Wiggly just a bit back and fourth at the crimped part, is this normal? Or should it be entirely stiff with no slight play whatsoever?

You tell me? 

Air does pass through it and out the small hole on the other side, cover that part up and air passes through the two small holes on the sides as well, as previously instructed and it checked out fine? If there should be not even a slight play on the tube I take it that the F/A tube needs to be replaced?

If that's the case, already checked with OCP and they don't have just the F/A tube by itself for sale, they have the entire assembly with an older F/A tube attached for a 220. I guess if anything else and I need to buy that then I will but need to know for sure if that would be a good fit/replacement for my 220E?

By chance anyone have a good F/A tube that would fit my 220E that would be willing to sell?

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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Ed66Horan
I know your frustration. Awhile ago I went through your experience. I needed a valve assembly as the lantern I was working on (a 220E) had a sheared off valve stem. I got the assembly from OCP and took it apart to make sure everything was good to go. The F/A tube was wiggly, more so than the one on the original valve. I installed it and fired the lantern up. It lit off and flamed out. It would hiss air, but no sputter. Took it apart a half dozen times to check and re-check my work. Same results. I walked away from it for awhile, needing some time to think things over. I decided to pull the OCP valve, take the valve stem out of that assembly, and use it to replace the valve in the original valve that came with the lantern. I cleaned up the original valve and F/A tube and with the replacement valve stem, installed it and fired it up. Happy- happy. Ran like a champ. Now my curiosity (OCD) kicks into high gear. I take the now running assembly back out and swap F/A tubes and reinstall. I lit it off and it flamed out. Changed out the F/A tube one final time, and it ran like a champ. A 220F valve assembly will work in your 220E. I don't think there is any difference in the valve assembly between the E's and F's. Needless to say, the only spare I have at the moment is defective, otherwise I'd send you one. Once you get it running, all the frustration you've had with it will be quickly forgotten. Good Luck!

Ed

Sears Collector Club #66  MilSpecOps #0030 
ICCC # 1575  Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate  #212

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GForceKaras
Orlando - putting one in the mail tomorrow. Hope it helps with the project.
Thien TAS member #2750 / Sears Collectors Club #1
Looking for a Sears Ted Williams lantern (FOUND! Thanks Sean!)
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity" - Darkness
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Lanterndude
Ed & GForceKaras, thank y'all for the generous offer! Y'all are far too kind! Thanks so much.
Just now I got back on it since early this morning, had to stop change the oil on the wife's vehicle
and run a couple errands but now I'm back on it.
Again, thanks so much fella's!

Now do y'all think that the F/A tube wiggling slightly was the main cause of the lantern not lighting up?

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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JimDouglasJr

OK, I'm swamped this week and won't be on much.  Look this over including my comments in the quote. By the end of this post, you'll know exactly what to do and why. I've given you EVERYTHING you need.

Lanterndude wrote:
First allow me to explain...

Working on a 220E lantern that was bought from a fellow member here, he said he had not tested it but that it held pressure. The lantern is in very good condition. Sure enough, lantern will not light, just blows air. 

Read up on this known problem of lanterns just blowing air, etc., from what I've mostly read, it appears that the root of this problem is the F/A tube?  So before I proceeded to tear it completely down I first remove and inspect the Generator and determine that the small round cardboard section is not good, looked too dark and used up so I buy a new one and first replace it to see if the lantern will fire up-no go? (A generator blowing air is clear. It does not supply fuel, so you must trace further back in the fuel path) So I proceed to tear it completely down, start to inspect the F/A tube and to my surprise it really looks good? But still decide to clean absolutely every part just to make sure, for a fresh start.
Doesn't matter how it "looks'. You need to be SURE the pick up orifice at the bottom is clean. MANUALLY clean it with a toothpick.  Read below for complete instructions. Once you know how it works, There'll be no guessing.

Put everything, every small bit part, yes even took apart the F/A tube (with exception to the new Generator, but even put the old one that came with it in there) that had been taken apart in a bowl filled with White Vinegar, placed on a stove and let it boil for about an hour.
Boiling or whatever won't do it. Manually clean it with something. A little crud or corrosion is all it takes to stop it functioning.  This is the key area for the instant light, where the rod goes through the orifice.  Making the whole assembly pretty doesn't improve it's function. Getting that orifice completely cleaned out does. That's what people mean when they say clean the F/A tube. Not cosmetically, but the rod and orifice.

Afterwards let it all cool down and everything comes out looking much better than when I first put it in. Use Steel Wool #000 and commence to polishing every bit and piece, everything comes out looking, well excellent, brand new almost! The vinegar removed all that black stuff, so I start to slowly and carefully assemble every bit, small and large piece back together, taking my sweet Texas time doing so as well as checking and making sure every part is functioning as it should as I go along.

Once everything is put back together, then comes the big moment, add fuel to the tank, start to pump, something like 50-60 pumps! Turn the 'Cleaning Needle' to 'down' then turn the "Valve" a bit more than a quarter turn, hear hissing, apply match and well nothing-just air blowing out?....again!

The 200E looks really sweet all cleaned up and all but with only one major problem, it won't light!

I started to review what I did and how I did it. Went back and checked everything that I possibly could to see if I could get it going but always the same result, just blows air.

I take it that this just might mean that I would have to replace the entire F/A tube section or ?
NO> Clean as I said. Guaranteed to work.

I'd like to hear y'all's thoughts, suggestions and or opinions on what you might think I possibly did wrong or incorrectly? 
Thanks in advance.


Read this. Save it somewhere as a file.

How it works. Rod based Instant Lite models.
The Fuel/Air tube is a tube inside a tube. Air enters a hole (or opening) near the top of the outer tube, rushes down, then picks up some fuel and then goes up the central tube, through the valve and into the generator.  
Opening the valve all the way retracts the rod in the F/A tube, fuel floods in, and the air is cut off. Pretty simple.
 
Even with the rod extended through the fuel pick up orifice (valve 1/4 turn open), SOME fuel needs to pass.
When cleaning it, soaking is not enough. You have to take the Fuel/Air tube off and clean the rod and manually clean the orifice with a toothpick or something.
When reassembling, close the valve (rod extended through the fuel orifice) and be sure you can suck some air out the bottom of the tube. You should be able to get some air with some resistance, but not too much.
Now open valve and visually confirm that the rod retracts (this is what the spring does) and that you can now suck more air out with little resistance.
If all good, reassemble.
Kyle. Kaptain Kamplite - America's Finest Lantern Fettler.
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate and 243 Blues Member #0031 &  J.C. Higgins aficionado.
“If you light a lamp for someone else, it will also brighten your path.” Buddhist quote.  Brand-X Super Hoarder.
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Majicwrench
Two things, I'm confused...earlier on in this thread you said you removed genny  opened valve and fuel came out. If that is the case the FA TUBE IS DELIVERING FUEL and the problem is above that. So why are you messing with the FA tube?? 

And per the above post,  generators can hiss and not deliver fuel. Air is much much easier to pass thru a genny than liquid fuel, so you can certainly have a genny that pass air and not enough fuel to ignite.
Keith
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Murff
Lanterndude wrote:

Is there really more than one way to install the "spring" back in the F/A tube? Can someone explain the following in specific detail:

.........make sure it is on the right side of the FA rod. ?


When I reassembled the F/A tube section back together I first put the spring back on over the small needle, then inserted that whole section back in the tube? Was that the correct way or incorrect?





The spring goes on the long part of the rod! Did you put the spring on the short, top of the rod?

Correct:

FA 001.jpg 

Incorrect:

FA 002.jpg 


Murff

Name: Murff   ICCC Member #726 
Coleman Blue's 243's #002   Ebay Handle: Happy-campers2 
Soon-to-be EX-ICCC Newsletter Editor & Coleman Addiction Enabler
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mcdugal2
He said fuel came out but, not very much. And that he did put the spring on correctly. It is entirely possible that he has a bad F/A tube. If he tries the one that's on its way and it fixes it problem solved if it doesn't then we can go back to the genny. With a broken inner tube it may be possible to get some fuel out with out the genny on, but only air with the genny on because there is more resistance. it like sucking water through a straw with a crack in the side. if you suck slow you get air, if you suck fast you get some water mixed with air... i hope that analogy helps or even makes sense...
Phil Rhoades ICCC# 1125
The Coleman Blue's 243's. #035

"I'm a man, but I can Change, if I have to, I guess." - Red Green
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Lanterndude
Let me briefly explain something to you guys.

First off I replaced the generator with a new generator, so I know that the generator is not the problem.
Yes I did remove the generator and some fuel spurts out so with that, the lantern still does not turn on.
This leads me to believe that the problem/issue lies further down, yes even though some fuel comes out.
Also everything and I mean everything above the fount/tank had been cleaned throughly inside and out.

As for "cleaning the F/A tube" well I had previously taken it entirely apart, yes cleaned the heck out of it, tooth pick and all the first time after it came out from boiling on white vinegar for an hour. The long needle, spring and inside the tube and out, blew air through it, looked through, it examined it, checked out fine. Then attached it to the Valve assembly (prior to connecting, also cleaned the entire Valve assembly, even took it apart as well and cleaned it inside and out, made sure everything worked on it as well) once assembled checked make sure that the F/A tube functioned as it should by testing the with the Valve assembly knob, left it open, blew air through it as well, checked that air would come out the small orfice hole at the end of the F/A tube and the small holes on the side.
I did all this prior to re-installing the entire Valve assembly back on the tank. After that I connected the Cleaning part on the Valve assembly, then proceeded to connect the large tube with the two small tubes ( where the mantles attach too) on to the section of the Cleaning and Valve assembly making sure everything was tighten down and secure. Lastly connecting the new Generator. So I knew that it was done right and knowing this, along with the new generator (which works as it should) and the rest of the tubing, I was ready to proceed to lighting it. But no go! Tried all the suggested recommendations from all the previous post by fellow members (trying to help me out which I greatly appreciate!) I still could not get it going. I did have some favorable results as Curly suggested but it would not stay lit! But the only thing that I did not do was to check to see it I had possibly bottomed out the F/A tube when I first installed it back into the fount/tank, I decided to wait on this.
All that was two days ago, couldn't get back to it till this morning. Gave it a couple tries and well no go. So decided to dissemble everything again and re-exam every section and part but keeping in mind that I had bottomed out the F/A tube? I remember when I re-installed the Valve assembly with F/A tube, back into the tank I made sure that it was tighten down securely to make sure it would make a good seal so that no air would escape. When I did so I may have very well bottom out the F/A tube?
So when I dissembled it this morning I was examing the F/A tube and noticed that there was a slight wiggle play on it and was not sure if this was normal or not? Does it need to actually be stiff? I was not sure? That's why I asked.
Since this morning I re-cleaned all the parts again, yes even the F/A tube completely and gave it another shot this time making sure not to bottom out the F/A tube this time and still no go. This leads me to believe that the F/A tube is what needs to be replaced since "everything else" on the lantern basically depends on the F/A tubes functioning properly and all other associated parts on the lantern check out fine?
So Keith as for your continuous emphasis on "cleaning the F/A tube real good" well I had made sure that was done and I appreciate your help but still I had no success?

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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Lanterndude
mcdugal2 wrote:
He said fuel came out but, not very much. And that he did put the spring on correctly. It is entirely possible that he has a bad F/A tube. If he tries the one that's on its way and it fixes it problem solved if it doesn't then we can go back to the genny. With a broken inner tube it may be possible to get some fuel out with out the genny on, but only air with the genny on because there is more resistance. it like sucking water through a straw with a crack in the side. if you suck slow you get air, if you suck fast you get some water mixed with air... i hope that analogy helps or even makes sense...


Thank you Phil!

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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Lanterndude
Murff wrote:
Lanterndude wrote:

Is there really more than one way to install the "spring" back in the F/A tube? Can someone explain the following in specific detail:

.........make sure it is on the right side of the FA rod. ?


When I reassembled the F/A tube section back together I first put the spring back on over the small needle, then inserted that whole section back in the tube? Was that the correct way or incorrect?





The spring goes on the long part of the rod! Did you put the spring on the short, top of the rod?

Correct:

FA 001.jpg 

Incorrect:

FA 002.jpg 


Murff


Yes it was/is installed the correct way. I had previously stated this in post #40.

"TURD" #0132
"MILSPEC" #0024

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