animated-christmas-line-image-0142animated-christmas-line-image-0142
 
Sportsman globe
Blow out price
Was $19
Now $8
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Note: This topic is locked. No new replies will be accepted.


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 3      1   2   3   Next
Flash

Avatar / Picture

The one and only.....
Registered:
Posts: 6,697
Reply with quote  #1 
Please note this is a post discussing
Theory and operation.
(This practice may be dangerous, Not Recommended)< Disclaimer.

We have all seen quite a few post regarding a member burning alcohol, so I thought this one post would be the best place to discuss it...

GO GO GO

__________________
The original $8 dealer.
Sobright

Avatar / Picture

Freight Shaker
Registered:
Posts: 1,258
Reply with quote  #2 
Wasn't it said that it was 91% iso alc? I would be willing to try it but I think I remember something about isopropyl alcohol containing water or attracting it, which make me hesitate putting it in a steel fount.
__________________
Devon
I ❤️ Guns
Contributing utter nonsense since 7/23/12
ASEREAEVANS1

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 200
Reply with quote  #3 
I use denatured alcohol in my col-max and quick lite works  great

StanDahl

Avatar / Picture

John
Registered:
Posts: 6,600
Reply with quote  #4 
I've got a Sears stove that was converted to burn alcohol. It had denatured in it for "quite a while" (I really don't know how long), with no rust. It didn't make much light, in fact it's kind of dangerous because the flame is nearly invisible. I suppose a mantle would change that though.
__________________
ICCC Petty Bureaucrat #CMLXII...
Sobright

Avatar / Picture

Freight Shaker
Registered:
Posts: 1,258
Reply with quote  #5 
Well after realizing that I know next to nothing about the two chemicals,Ii did a quick google search of the msds of both isopropyl alcohol 91% and denatured alcohol it turns out that denatured alcohol most often contains no water but it might depending on the manufacturer. Now ISP alcohol 91% is like the name says 91% ISP alc and 9% water. The lower the alcohol grade the higher the water content. So prolonged storage in a metal vessel ( lantern, stove, etc) is probably a bad idea. Now you would probably be ok with the denatured but for me a gallon of denatured alcohol is 16 bucks and CF is 10 bucks were I live.
__________________
Devon
I ❤️ Guns
Contributing utter nonsense since 7/23/12
Scouterjan


Coleman Canada
Prime Minister

Registered:
Posts: 26,355
Reply with quote  #6 
good thread Flash, it would be interesting to see what he is doing. I believe alcohol uses a way larger orifice than for C Fuel
Jan

__________________
"ebgone bahwagh agi" Harvest Gatherer

Mitakiuye Oyasin " All My Relations"
JimDouglasJr

Avatar / Picture

King of Kamplite
Registered:
Posts: 11,812
Reply with quote  #7 
I clean out founts and fuel paths with it and run it through under pressure.  It  usually won't sustain a flame if I try to light it.  I've never tried with mantles.
Larger orifice may do the trick.

__________________
Kyle. Kaptain Kamplite - America's Finest Lantern Fettler.
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate and 243 Blues Member #0031 &  J.C. Higgins aficionado.
“If you light a lamp for someone else, it will also brighten your path.” Buddhist quote.  Brand-X Super Hoarder.
toddcline

 photo jackie-gleason_zps4b7fbb44.jpg
I'm in HOT PURSUIT
OF COLEMAN GOODS!

Registered:
Posts: 1,640
Reply with quote  #8 
I gotta' agree with Stan. Alcohol burns with a clear flame ( invisable ), so I think it would be totally usless as a fuel in a lantern if you expect to generate any light. Remember those alcohol burners in science class in Jr. High? No visable flame, but woe to the clumsey student that inadvertantly brushed their shirtsleeve over a lit one. I assume they now have "idiot-proof" heat sources in school science labs to ward off such lawsuits.

Todd

__________________
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
manul

Avatar / Picture

Over
500 Posts!

Registered:
Posts: 987
Reply with quote  #9 

Some thoughts on this matter:

1) The biggest problem is that nitrile rubber gets hard in alcohol, viton should be OK.

2) Thread sealant should be alcohol-proof. Teflon tape should be...

3) The jet should be larger to use alcohol.

4) There may be corrosion problems in long term - alcohols are weak acids.

dwarfnebula

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 116
Reply with quote  #10 
Clear flame is a non-issue in a lantern, the mantle converts heat into light, not light into more light. 

It's quite doable I'm sure.  Isopropanol is useless in a pop can stove so I think you'd want good methanol or ethanol of very high purity, denatured alcohol or Heet.  All you'd have to do is to dramatically increase the size of the jet, probably near double the size (in area not diameter) and replace any rubber parts with alcohol resistant rubber and you'd be good to go.  Alcohol vaporizes at a higher temp than CF so the instant lighting might not work, but these things make plenty of heat to generate vapor.  Lots of old marine stoves burned alcohol, John I imagine your stove was converted for maritime use so an alcohol GPA is far from unusual.  I'd guess your stove has a shroud over the gennie?  I think a lantern would generate fine without modification cause they burn kero so well.

This asks the question though, what for?  I think ethanol has near half the energy content as CF, methanol is even less, it's more expensive too, so you'd have substandard runtime for a lot more money.  Alcohol is a worthless fuel for a GPA, it's almost justifiable for a pop can stove when backpacking, but on long trips the weight savings of the stove are offset by the need to carry double the fuel.  Having the extra weight and complexity of a GPA and the crap fuel seems like shooting yourself in the foot to me.  It's an interesting thought experiment but not something I'd bother with actually doing.
Flash

Avatar / Picture

The one and only.....
Registered:
Posts: 6,697
Reply with quote  #11 
Now my question is, at $20 a gallon, why the heck would you want to use this stuff?
__________________
The original $8 dealer.
manul

Avatar / Picture

Over
500 Posts!

Registered:
Posts: 987
Reply with quote  #12 
It's safer indoors and in confined spaces like boats. Can be extinguished by water.
Flash

Avatar / Picture

The one and only.....
Registered:
Posts: 6,697
Reply with quote  #13 
Wikipedia....

sopropyl alcohol and its metabolite, acetone, act as central nervous system (CNS) depressants. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or absorption; therefore, well-ventilated areas and protective gloves are recommended. Around 15 g of isopropyl alcohol can have a toxic effect on a 70 kg human if left untreated.[16] However, it is not nearly as toxic as methanol or ethylene glycol. Isopropyl alcohol does not cause an anion gap acidosis (in which a lowered blood serum pH causes depletion of bicarbonate anion) unlike ethanol and methanol. Isopropyl alcohol does however, produce an osmolal gap between the calculated and measured osmolalities of serum, as do the other alcohols. Overdoses may cause a fruity odor on the breath as a result of its metabolism to acetone, which is further metabolized to produce the nutrients acetate and glucose.[17] Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized to form acetone by alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.

__________________
The original $8 dealer.
manul

Avatar / Picture

Over
500 Posts!

Registered:
Posts: 987
Reply with quote  #14 
Isopropanol and methanol are toxic, but much less so than gas or kerosene. Just don't drink them! You need to sniff quite a bit of that stuff to absorb 10 or so grams! Combustion products should be safer...
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #15 
I can get 99% isopropyl free....watching very closely.
__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
toddcline

 photo jackie-gleason_zps4b7fbb44.jpg
I'm in HOT PURSUIT
OF COLEMAN GOODS!

Registered:
Posts: 1,640
Reply with quote  #16 
Agree with dwarfnebula. Going where no man has gone before, ( Dammit Bones )!!But yes, seems totally pointless to burn ethanol in a Coleman lantern. It might exite the fibers in the mantle enough to put out a small glow, but the weak btu/lumen value of alcohol would seem to make it a losing proposition. ( anti-matter and all that).  I think it would only make sense if you had a surplus of over 100,000 gallons of alcohol that you had no other use for.
Seriously though, I think that when alcohol vaporizes it brings a big drop in temperature. Some of the earliest "air-conditioning-systems" used a pressurized alcohol loop. It might just freeze the mantle. But go ahead, don't let me talk you out of it. I'd like to hear how it works out.  And I won't make fun of you if it doesn't....For every one succesful invention, there are ten failures.  Edison didn't hit it every time, keep thinking outside the box.
Todd

Sorry DW, just had to hit on the Star/Trek thing.

__________________
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law........____ Todd Cline ICCC # 1296 Battle Creek, MI. ______

Mil.Spec. GP. # 73rd. Trans. Ft. Eustis Va. 1984-1987      NCO club: 1900-2200, usually.
Kremer

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 320
Reply with quote  #17 
If you greatly restricted the air intake(s) to get the mixture correct alcohol should burn alright without messing with the jet.
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #18 
Restricting intake the proper amount would give the correct air fuel ratio,(whatever that is) but would also limit output. If alcohol is less potent than CF then we want to increase fuel to the proper ratio(again,whatever that is) . The place to start is a lantern designed multi fuel,like a petromax. What is the oriface size on the petromax fuel generator and alcohol generator.
__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #19 
Knowing that would give us a guess as to how much to increase jet size.
__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
200Apples

Naphthaholic
Registered:
Posts: 5,051
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
dwarfnebula

Clear flame is a non-issue in a lantern, the mantle converts heat into light, not light into more light.  

All you'd have to do is to dramatically increase the size of the jet, probably near double the size (in area not diameter) and replace any rubber parts with alcohol resistant rubber and you'd be good to go. 


This asks the question though, what for?  I think ethanol has near half the energy content as CF, methanol is even less, it's more expensive too, so you'd have substandard runtime for a lot more money



THE VOICE OF KNOWLEDGE AND REASON HAS SPOKEN.

(the only decent thing about this might be it's potential use in a lantern in an enclosed space...)

Dagnabbit, dwarf_n! Glad to have you aboard!


 

__________________
-
"I intended to take more pics, but I am easily distracted by food and beer and awesomeness."
- bullof7battles, Lake George 2012

Open 1/4 Turn to Left and Light

ICCC #990
curlyjoe_99

MILSPECS
need love too!

Registered:
Posts: 5,917
Reply with quote  #21 
the one benefit i see that was not yet covered is that it is fairly straight forward to make your own wood/grain alcohol. SHOULD petro fuels become extinct, just knowing how to convert may become beneficial. This could give a tri-fuel light source. maybe not as bright as CF, but better than using a single candle.

Just my thoughts on this as I would like to have the specifications of the changes required

__________________
Robert (AKA Curly)-- Heart-of-Texas! "Keep 'Em Working"  
MILSPEC_OPS & 275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #9999

In Search of (ISO): evidence of a 220/228 series lantern dated 2/63    

nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #22 
I guess because I'm the one with 55gal drums of 99% ISO sitting around I'll be the one experimenting.
What size jet do fuel burning pertomaxs use?
what size jet do alcohol burning Petromaxs use?
the difference between the two should give us a rough guess ad to how much increase over a standard Coleman jet we would need.
For the poster running alky in a colmax, details?

__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
dwarfnebula

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 116
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
I guess because I'm the one with 55gal drums of 99% ISO sitting around I'll be the one experimenting.
What size jet do fuel burning pertomaxs use?
what size jet do alcohol burning Petromaxs use?
the difference between the two should give us a rough guess ad to how much increase over a standard Coleman jet we would need.
For the poster running alky in a colmax, details?


The trick would be to find a multifuel stove that burns alky and look at it's jet sizes and determine the ratio difference in area then apply that ratio to the jet size of your lantern.  I think there was an alcohol burning 111, I know there was a CF 111.  Don't have time right now to find jet sizes right now, big thing for sure is to get it by area rather than diameter.

You might also be able to deduce the jet size by comparing energy content of CF and alcohol.  Check your work against the kero jet size, if you can come to the right number for kero using the same method you might have the alky jet size right.

As for stillin' your own alcohol, it's great fun but best left for drinkin' booze, it takes a huge amount of energy and time to make even just whiskey, getting high enough purity for fuel takes a very fancy still and huge amounts of heat.  I've made moonshine, the effort it takes is way higher than you think.  Worth it for drinkin' though.
dwarfnebula

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 116
Reply with quote  #24 
Look what I just found on Spiritburner:
Range of Jet Sizes Used for Optimus 206/207B burner
±.02mm(.0008") wo/noticable change
Alcohol 0.51mm(.020")/no air restrictor #2508
isopropane 0.45mm(.018")
White Gas 0.37mm(.015") #2510
Kerosene 0.28mm(.011") #2500/#2509
Mjet-k/wg=0.032mm(.013") #2502/#2509
Mjet-alcohol=. 032mm(.013")+air restrictor #2502/#2509


I make no claims of accuracy here, sorry.
Nevada_Ed

Avatar / Picture

Super Moderators
Registered:
Posts: 7,672
Reply with quote  #25 
The Swedes (and others) made alcohol burning lamps, lanterns (their own Petromax style) and stoves for years, in WWII they did so because of fuel shortages. All brass founts and lead washers. The Optimus 111T single burner stoves comes with a sleeve and nozzle to use with alcohol. As for Isopropyl alcohol toxicity, they do call it rubbing alcohol. Based on volume it takes a lot more to get the same performance as CF or kerosene which are pretty close to each other in BTU content.

Ethanol is about 75,000 BTU per gallon.
ISO is some higher than ethanol or methanol BTU per gallon (pure, but none is without some water).
White gasoline about 114,000 BTU (CF is close to this)
Light kerosene varies by grades/quality, 120,000+ Btu per gallon.

Ed

__________________

There Are 10 Kinds of People In This World,
Those who understand binary,
and those who don't.

[img][/img] Nevada Ed
magikbus

Avatar / Picture

OCD ~ Obsessive
Coleman Disorder

Registered:
Posts: 2,612
Reply with quote  #26 
Kero can also be extinguished with water, just ask Steve!
Stan

__________________
I always take the road less traveled, now where the h3ll am I?
Vancouver Island Branch ccf #0
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #27 
Just looking at those numbers kero requires roughly half the area jet and alcohol twice compared to white gas.
What is the jet on a 220? .008?

__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
Meodee

Over
500 Posts!

Registered:
Posts: 659
Reply with quote  #28 
Why reinvent the wheel?

Throughout its history, Coleman has produced a wide variety of equipment primarily aimed at the camping and recreational markets. Perhaps their most famous product is the Coleman Lantern, a series of lamps that were originally made to burn kerosene or gasoline. Current models use Coleman fuel (white gas) or propane and use one or two mantles to produce an intense white light.
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #29 
Deaf Lantern ,
With the jet sizes were talking about I assumed preheating was needed. What jet sizes are you using in 220 sized lantern? Low pressure in faunt at start-up out or at operating temp as Well?

__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #30 
Also, what mods have you done to the generators and tips. ?
__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
242burner

Avatar / Picture

Lantern
Luminist

Registered:
Posts: 3,316
Reply with quote  #31 
Sorry, not part of the "This is mostly flamable, I think I will try it in a lantern".

What is next, mooshine, everclear, paint thinner?  Gas, CF, KERO.  Choose one. JEEZ

Insert grumpy old man shaking fist at the young lantern kids.

HERE:  

__________________
1928 L-220 "Slant" from Russ
1919 Air-O from Jerry
500 Speedmaster

Deanofid

Midnight KeroseneRitualist
Registered:
Posts: 4,995
Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
Wikipedia....

sopropyl alcohol and its metabolite, acetone, act as central nervous system (CNS) depressants. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or absorption; therefore, well-ventilated areas and protective gloves are recommended. Around 15 g of isopropyl alcohol can have a toxic effect on a 70 kg human if left untreated.[16] However, it is not nearly as toxic as methanol or ethylene glycol. Isopropyl alcohol does not cause an anion gap acidosis (in which a lowered blood serum pH causes depletion of bicarbonate anion) unlike ethanol and methanol. Isopropyl alcohol does however, produce an osmolal gap between the calculated and measured osmolalities of serum, as do the other alcohols. Overdoses may cause a fruity odor on the breath as a result of its metabolism to acetone, which is further metabolized to produce the nutrients acetate and glucose.[17] Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized to form acetone by alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.


About all this stuff above, I don't know how it is applicable when it comes to burning alky. 
All those warnings are pertinent to consumption of the various alcohols, along with a few
of inhaling raw alky vapors.  Given a hard choice (gun pointed to my head) of what I had to
drink, any of the alcohols will be less deadly than drinking naphtha!  No one would consider drinking
naphtha, CF, or gasoline, so the hand wringing stuff about alcohol should be in the same pot. 
Simply don't consider drinking it!  Don't huff it either, any more than you would pump gas.  Simple.

Why alcohol would be any different than other vaporizing fuels for heating a mantle, I don't know.
Given the right orifice size and proper air and heating amounts, it surly will produce heat.  It does
have fewer potential BTU's than other fuels, but like anything flammable, it can be made to work
in numerous applications.  There are a number of methanol fired engines in racing circuits producing
upwards of 6,000 horsepower for 500 cubic inches.  Not bad.  Lots of heat.
There are also many older torch and stove type appliances that were made to run on alcohol.  I
have a few.  They make a flame much like a common propane torch,  (blue).  The flame
that comes out of the burners on a Coleman lantern are also blue, once the genny gets hot.
The cost of the fuel itself may be what puts us off using this fuel, right now.  There may
well be a time coming up when alky fuels are cheaper than naphtha fuels.
Right now, 91% Iso is about $8 per gallon at Wal Mart.  Might be worth playing with.

__________________
Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #33 
I'm with you Deano, asking me why i want to do something pretty well motivates me to try..
With the proper A/F ratio it will work. Figuring out what that is in a repeatable manner is the problem at hand. If a 220 orifice is .008 , .009 is roughly double the surface area.

__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
weasel

Avatar / Picture

It's not rocket
science, it's nuclear!

Registered:
Posts: 1,838
Reply with quote  #34 
Sounds like something to try for those with a worn out generator ( oversized )
__________________
Derek.

Looking for (Cdn where possible): 3-2006, 11-2007, 11-73 (Something nickel) 5-79 ( Something pretty for my wife ), 2-47, 10-48.
aephilli

Super Poster
Registered:
Posts: 1,797
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf_Lantern
for ColeALC 242 orifice is 0.10
for ColeALC 220 orifice is 0.13

Do not attempt Alcohol fuel to any Green Lantern with Steel Fount unless you have
apply coat with teflon coating inside the fount ( tank ) to prevent the rust inside tank....

That is it 


Deaf_Lantern






Dang it! I was hoping them .010 tips I had would work on 327/427 lanterns and CQ lamps.

No rubber parts to harden, but steel bottoms to worry about rust.

And yes, the "fumes in the house" issue is why. (wife has lots of birds, sensitive little buggers)

__________________
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
Deanofid

Midnight KeroseneRitualist
Registered:
Posts: 4,995
Reply with quote  #36 
Deaf Lantern, thank you for telling us the orifice sizes.  Very useful information.

This thread is kind of old, but seems to have been brought back to life.  I'd like to
make a few comments on recent posts.  I am not disagreeing with other posters,
but am offering a couple things to think about;

I would not be concerned about steel founts rusting because of alcohol use.  Something
to understand is that the common alcohols are "miscible" with water.  That means they
form a complete solution together, no matter the ratios of the two components.  Once
water and alcohol get together, they do not want to come apart.  Alcohol that contains
water should not cause rusting inside a fount any more than other fuels.
One of the reasons that alcohol is used as a drying component for the fuel tanks on
cars is that it captures water and takes it out of contact of the inside of the fuel
tank.  The water it absorbs eventually gets released as vapor at the tail pipe.

Having built a number of burners that are fueled by alcohol, I do not see the reason
for the need of stainless steel parts in the fuel system.  Brass is impervious to alcohol.
The normal material used for generators and gas jets is brass, and those materials
should do fine for an alcohol fueled lantern.

Alcohol will affect some rubbers and plastics, and certain types will destroy those
materials in short order.  If you are going to try alky in one of the newer type lanterns,
I would check the effect of the alky on things like o-rings and plastic e-blocks and such.

Dean

__________________
Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
Lant_ern

Avatar / Picture

Lightkeeper
Registered:
Posts: 1,581
Reply with quote  #37 
I tried a unconverted 200 a couple of years ago.I have burned meth in a suitcase stove ,but it didn't work well .The 200 never had enough fuel to make the mantel glow.This was something I never got around to
YET

__________________
Looking for a 7-55 Canadian lantern       Ernie
BRIGHTER IS BETTER
Canadian Blues # 37
Kevin

Avatar / Picture

ICCC#896
Registered:
Posts: 3,923
Reply with quote  #38 
One thing about alcohol as a fuel, if anything ever happened to where no other fuel was available, a person could distill it themselves. It would always be available to those that have the know how. Run it in lanterns, a vehicle, (with modifications) or internally. Disinfectant properties, tinctures, etc. 

Just sayin.

But, as long as I can get camp fuel/gasoline or kerosene, I'll be using those.
Lant_ern

Avatar / Picture

Lightkeeper
Registered:
Posts: 1,581
Reply with quote  #39 
I'm with Kevin. We need to be self reliant. Fuel and food will be the new money if sh#t happens.


__________________
Looking for a 7-55 Canadian lantern       Ernie
BRIGHTER IS BETTER
Canadian Blues # 37
weasel

Avatar / Picture

It's not rocket
science, it's nuclear!

Registered:
Posts: 1,838
Reply with quote  #40 
Personally, I'd rather drink it.
__________________
Derek.

Looking for (Cdn where possible): 3-2006, 11-2007, 11-73 (Something nickel) 5-79 ( Something pretty for my wife ), 2-47, 10-48.
Kevin

Avatar / Picture

ICCC#896
Registered:
Posts: 3,923
Reply with quote  #41 
Thanks for reposting you photo, Deaf_Lantern. It speaks a thousand words.
Deanofid

Midnight KeroseneRitualist
Registered:
Posts: 4,995
Reply with quote  #42 
Thanks for the picture, D-L. 
Do you know who made the stainless generator and tips?
Also, is there a reason for having the cleaning needle tapered? 

Dean

__________________
Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
SilkliteJon

Naphtha Addict
Registered:
Posts: 1,111
Reply with quote  #43 
I know this is probably a stretch, but does anyone have a 348 (Alcohol) Marine stove gen to check orifice size? I have a 345 (Kerosene) to compare it to.
MantleMidget

Avatar / Picture

Official
Wit-Cracker!

Registered:
Posts: 2,297
Reply with quote  #44 
I just woke up, sorry........how about E85, did I miss that? They pump it out of the ground in town here for $3.39 a gal. Should I try this or go back to bed? Alcohol, Ethanol, Tomato, Tomahtoe?
__________________
The other Mike
__________________
Deanofid

Midnight KeroseneRitualist
Registered:
Posts: 4,995
Reply with quote  #45 
Mike!!  Long time no see.  That was a loong nap, man! 
Glad to read something from you again.

Dean

__________________
Dean - <a href="http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html>Machine Shop Projects</a>
ICCC #1220. Turd-anon #18

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!
nfadude

Powered by
Isopar C

Registered:
Posts: 2,945
Reply with quote  #46 
Since we're preheating I wonder if a straight pickup would be better? Oh and Dean, were going to need a batch of .010 200 tips
__________________
Always looking for 237 parts, new, used, or broken.....Michael..theDude ICCC #1423
MantleMidget

Avatar / Picture

Official
Wit-Cracker!

Registered:
Posts: 2,297
Reply with quote  #47 
Hi Dean! Yes, quite a nap indeed, I'm a long-haired hippie now!

Thanks for sharing about miscibility, I was wondering about this very thing the other day as I contemplate converting my old Dodge to E85. I have a new tank for it and don't want to go through the trouble/risk/cost of coating it's interior if I don't have to. Now I'm thinking if it doesn't sit in the fount(tank) for more than a few weeks at a time it should be OK as long as it will still burn right?

Did we discuss long-term affects of alcohol on aluminum? Not sure if it matters but some of the modern gpa's have some alloy bits in them now eh? I'm thinking more about carburetors myself so maybe I'm mixed up about concern for methanol causing corrosion rather than akly, I don't remember if they're both bad or not?

__________________
The other Mike
__________________
Dmacp

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,842
Reply with quote  #48 
The jet size does need to be changed slightly, but the real difference is that the air flow must be restricted. Gasoline air fuel ratio is 15:1 (+/-) and alcohol air fuel ratio is 6:1. (also +/-). You need half the air, or twice the alcohol. And the mileage will go right out the window-less than half of what you'd get with petroleum fuel.

If you are using off the shelf isopropyl alcohol, that is 30% water. Anhydrous isopropyl is 99% pure.
Pure ethanol is better, but what was used in the day was methanol. (methyl or wood alcohol-deadly poison-causes blindness). There are other types of alcohol as well.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol with poison added to it so it cannot be consumed as liquor. In Mexico one can purchase pure ethanol in a drug store-without the poison.

Pure alcohol has an affinity for water and will pull it right out of the atmosphere.

I have two swedish lanterns set up by the factory for "sprit" (spirit) and both have restrictors in the air tube-washers pressed right into them. There are minor jetting differences but the air restriction is the biggest difference. These are petromax style lanterns that normally burn kerosene.

Leaving alcohol fuel in them for a long time produces a greenish residue that stinks far beyond anything I have ever encountered in a petroleum burning lantern.

I am tempted to fire one of these old things up, but will use methanol. (maybe). Alcohol is volatile, and it does need enough heat to vaporize it. (alcohol burns much cooler than gasoline or kerosene).


I have never seen a Coleman marine stove but they are set up for alcohol. Anyone have one of these?

__________________
Dan
ICCC member #604
aephilli

Super Poster
Registered:
Posts: 1,797
Reply with quote  #49 
OK, since nobody else was gonna post it, I did the math. (can you smell that smoke?)
Please feel free to correct me if anything is incorrect.

for an orifice of .006 (201 kero) the area of the opening is .00002827
for .007 (200 CF) area = .00003848
.008 (220, etc) = .00005026
.009 = .00006361
.010 = .00007853
.011 = .00009503
.012 = .00011309
.013 = .00013272

ETA: .0135 (#80) = .00014313
.0145 = .00016512
.016 = .00020105
.018 = .00025446
.020 = .00031415
.026 = .00053091


So does the flow volume double when the area doubles? If so, then going from a .007 orifice on a 200 lantern to a .010 orifice (as Deaf Lantern says he does to make his work with alky) is real close to twice the area, so sounds about right.

Deaf Lantern also says he uses a .013 on a dual mantle in place of a .008, somewhat more than double, but he is the one who has made it work, so I'm not gonna argue. I have some .010 genny tips, but where do I get some .011, .012 and .013 drill bits to try? A #80 drill bit is listed as .0135, and my understanding is that the hole ends up a little larger than the bit size (true? Deanofid, you following this thread?) so I am open to suggestions. I would like to do something fairly "repeatable" rather than  something like put valve grinding compound on a small wire and "wear out" the orifice.

__________________
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
aephilli

Super Poster
Registered:
Posts: 1,797
Reply with quote  #50 
Anybody vouch for these guys, or have a better source?

http://drillbitsunlimited.com/Create-Your-Custom-Drill-Set-P2817263.aspx

__________________
Albert
"At least it's not a complete wretched pulsating ball of fail and suck."
dpatten

Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate Supporter #42
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.


Welcome to the Coleman Collectors Forum, an international forum of Coleman enthusiast and collectors, as such people from all over the world come here to read about Coleman collecting, repair, and to meet and make friends. The pages contained here are intended for the use of amateur collectors and people interested in Coleman collecting, restoration and repair as a hobby. It goes without saying to refrain from political posts, personal attacks and inflammatory posts.

Please note, all postings are the personal opinions of the members posting, the owner, administrators and moderators of the forum do not warrant the accuracy of posted information or endorse the safety of such.

animated-christmas-tree-decorations-image-0117animated-christmas-tree-decorations-image-0117
Coleman-Santa-zpsdef863f9-1
animated-christmas-glitter-image-0170  photo 200002-1.jpganimated-christmas-glitter-image-0170

bling34-zps58fe64be bling27-zps7b4bbe1bbling34-zps58fe64be
xmas-tree-9 murff8-zps31de572dmurff8-zps31de572dmurff8-zps31de572dmurff8-zps31de572dxmas-tree-9

animated-christmas-glitter-image-0202 animated-christmas-line-image-0043animated-christmas-tree-image-0126 murff-zps1d40516c-1animated-christmas-tree-image-0126animated-christmas-line-image-0043animated-christmas-glitter-image-0185





 photo merry-christmas-santa.gif  photo joy-to-the-world-elf.gif photo humbug.gif

animated-christmas-tree-image-0020<<<< Murff