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JimL

It seems Aladdin mantles are not held in high regard here. I wonder if it's due to the current manufacturer not knowing or not caring about the perceived lack of quality, or if it could be due to the newer mantles not being attached at the bottom, allowing them to swing freely. Regardless, I have a hard time with the idea of paying $15 for a single mantle that may or may not make it past initial burn-in.  Disclaimer: I have not yet used a factory Aladdin mantle yet, but am basing my quality comments on past threads here on the forum.

I know some folks here have tried and failed to make their own mantles in the past.  At least that’s what was reported, but did not see it documented what the failures were. I'm one of those that sometimes has to fail for myself, especially since it seems reasonable that we should be able to do this. I’m now on my third attempt and beginning to make progress.

First attempt was with a Petromax (non-Superior Quality). The non-Superior Quality was certainly not superior. As on a lantern, it shrunk unevenly and tore away from the base. To attach the mantle to the base, I used hair gel, figuring that would hold it through burn-in.  As you can see below, it tore away at the base.
1-1.jpg 


On the second attempt, I fault myself for the failure. I used a Petromax Superior Quality mantle and it was burning in great, until it fell from the ring at the top. I hadn’t tightened it enough to ensure the hole was small enough for the mantle to stay put on the ring.

2-2.jpg  



On this third attempt, I used another Petromax Superior Quality mantle. I wasn't satisfied using the hair gel to hold the mantle in place, so I made a small amount of a special water-soluble glue that I knew would hold it: flour and water.  This mantle is showing promise. It didn’t burn in as evenly as I would have liked, and I believe I need to trim the wick based on the uneven flame I was seeing inside the mantle. I’ll trim the wick and get it going again when I have the patience to wait for the lamp to properly warm up.

3-2.jpg 

In all three cases above, I cut off the bottom of the mantle to retain the closure with the string for attaching to the top ring.  Removing the base of the mantle is easier to do if you do it with the mantle inside out.  That way, you can cut off the bunch sewed together and leave the rest of the mantle intact.  I'll keep you posted as I make...or rather if I make further progress.

One question I do have on these Aladdin's.  I really like the circular flame without the mantle.  Is it safe to run these without a mantle, or am I likely to crack the chimney?



-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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1hpycmpr
Your last question is an interesting one, Jim.  I have never tried to run one mantle-less before so not sure how it will  behave.
Mark
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gpaguy
Interesting timing of your idea.
I was recently pondering making Sievert propane lantern mantles. They have a ceramic base and I was wondering if I could mount a  Peerless mantle to the base and use fine stainless wire to attach it to the ceramic.


John
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salukispeed
I made several preformed style mantles like your Sievert and my Primus use. by tying a larger than "21" size  on to the ceramic ring with a bread ty . But It is hard to burn them in since they need to hang upside down freely  and be fired upside down for a while to get a firm baked shape . It can work but they are very fragile compared to a preform Gas lamp mantle. I made a tube adapter to allow me to run my Primus upside down long enough to fire the experimental . I will use preformed when I can find them even if pricy since they are much tougher than my version. 
Bob
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MotorcycleDan
Not sure what problems you are having with the Aladdin mantles. I have only been using an Aladdin lamp for about 7 years and go through about 5 gallons of Kero per winter in my user lamp. The only problem I have had with them is when I mess them up by having the flame to high and carbon it up. I am using the current mantle from the Philippines in the red box. These were made by Sam, the former owner of Peerless. The ones I am using have never been attached at the bottom and just hang in the frame. It is the same with the Coleman Kero Lite mantle. They just hang. I have used about a dozen mantles over the years and have never had a problem with them after burn in.  

Is the new owner of Peerless making Aladdin Mantles? Are those the ones you are using? Just want to know what to look out for. If they are from India, I better stock up on the Philippine ones. 
Dan ICCC #900
ICCC Treasure
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Eel
Would a #95 (Northstar mantle) save any labor here?
Thank you for an interesting and relevant topic - and interesting ideas.

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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salukispeed
My main complaint is two fold. Some Epay venders are sending old or possibly damaged mantles that have seen better days even before you burn the blue coating off, The other gripe is many new  are not well formed/shaped and one side is often closer in and runs brighter limiting the light output without over fueling the close side causing the black soot to form and bad things from there. I re-bent the hanger wire slightly on my last one to better center the mantle over the burner and then burned the coating off this helped me get more even lighting and more bright even light. Still wonderful lamps but a bit finicky and require attention especially during warm up. I no longer trust mine until an hour or more warming time and then I do not try to get the last little bit of light to be safer. 
Bob
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JimL
Dan,

As stated in the original post, I haven't used a factory mantle, but went by the comments of others with Aladdin lamps.  I don't burn my lanterns/lamps indoors, but am left with the impression that the current factory mantles couldn't take the jarring of the lamp being moved to the outdoors or back.  I hope I can pull this 'experiment' off.  I consider the Peerless mantles to be durable, but the other added bonus is that they are thorium.


Eel,

I don't know how the diameter of the #95 would compare as I've never used one.  The Petromax mantles I'm using are the 500cp ones and have plenty of give.

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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BrianBo
Thanks for testing the home grown mantles Jim! I often wondered about that myself. I was thinking about a wire framework to help hold the shape. With my next purchase of Aladdin mantles, I’m going to let it cool for a half hour or so after initial burn. Also, it was explained to me that Aladdin burners are designed to make heat, not light. That’s the mantle’s job.
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CaptainFantastic
Very timely post from my perspective, for sure.
I suspect the (2) mantles I have had may have had a tough life either in the mail or just banged around, both prior to burning off the coating (one was pink, the other blue). They sure are delicate if you are trying to move them around from room to room! When either of them totally gives up, then I will certainly try a home-made version based on what you come up with Jim.

Regarding the 'baking in' of a mantle, how about once the mantle is mounted and the initial burn carried out, flip the mantle upside down (assuming there is some way to fix it the to bottom ring) and use a torch to burn it 'downwards' from the inside?
Ian - Looking for these dates 7/82, 7/92, 8/93, 9/03, 11/05, 5/17
ICCC #1480 | ICCC co-webmaster

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zoomkat
I don't know the size details of the kero Aladdin lamp mantles, but you might look at the 10cm butterfly mantles as a possible replacement option. Below is one I took out of the pack and shaped somewhat like a kero mantle. If the mantle height is too short, the mantle could be lowered some by hanging it by a thin piece of wire.

aladdin1.jpg 
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Eel
I have a Superior Mfg Co "Ann Arbor" mod 119, a gasoline gravity-fed chandelier, which uses a similar design mantle - thus my interest.  The burners on the Ann are 1" dia, screened, with a screen hole for the wire mantle carrier.  I think Welsbach #813 is the "correct" mantle...  hard to find these days.

Hey Kat - "Why for" are your Butterfly mantles pink?  Mine are green, #4D... 

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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JimL
Ian,

Your previous posting on the mantles prompted me to go ahead and post what I've been doing on this.  I like your idea of using the torch to help shape the mantle!  To shrink a mantle for a Brunton Glorb(tiny butane lantern) I burned the mantle in with the gas on and a butane torch on the outside.  I never thought of that for this experiment, but then again, I'm new at trying.  It may be too late for this one being already burned in, but I think it's worth a try to reshape it a little.  I'm really wanting the Petromax mantles to work for brightness since they are thorium and not yttrium.

Eel,

Got a picture of that frame/carrier?

zoomkat,

I'll keep those in mind.  Right now, I'm using mantles that I have.  If/when this one fails or it's time to move on, I may first go back to the non-Superior Petromax since I found a few more in my mantle stash.

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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242burner
Just learning about these, so I am the ultimate newbie.  I did see a video where a guy had and aladdin bolted to his boat and no mantle.  So you can run it without one.  North-star and the double tie Tilley/petromax mantles seem to collapse on people too.  Some are trying with a dot of muffler mender.  Thanks for the thread Jim.  BTW, will I see you the 17th at Ramsey Lake?
1928 L-220 "Slant" from Russ
1919 Air-O from Jerry
500 Speedmaster

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Eel
JimL wrote:

Got a picture of that frame/carrier?


Best I can do is
Superior Mfg Co
a detail of the burner is in that PDF.

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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JimL
Eel,

I see what you mean about the similarity.  Do I understand your prior post correctly, that you have a screen inside the mantle?  

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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Eel
There is a brass screen, maybe 40 mesh, atop the burner - inside the mantle.  That screen has a hole in its center, reinforced with a brass eyelet, that passes the wire that is the mantle support  - as I understand this construction, the mantle is open at both ends??  The burner shell has a thumbscrew to adjust and secure the mantle support wire.  This seems to predate the Loxon rings and chimneys.

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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Eel
... blah, blah, blah -  and 3000 words (below).


IMG_20190501_174827681.jpg 

IMG_20190501_174834447.jpg 

IMG_20190501_174847420_HDR.jpg 

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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manul
Aladdin mantle quality has improved in recent years. You can also make them last longer by adding some muffler putty to where the V-shaped wire on top of the mantle hangs on the frame. Let it dry thoroughly before lighting. This prevents the mantle from dangling loose and breaking up as a result. If it still swings after this procedure, add two drops of water thinned muffler putty to where the V-shaped wire holds onto the metal ring at the top of the mantle. This should help if nothing else does. Again, let it dry thoroughly before lighting. If you don't, the compound will boil in the heat and spray inside the chimney, where it's super hard to remove after!
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manul
I read in 1910s Russian encyclopedia how the preformed mantles are made. They start as regular soft ones. But then the are put on top of some sort of refractory form, and everything is put into the furnace. The mantle is thus burned up and baked into shape. After that it's lifted and soaked in collodion, the nitrocellulose based lacquer. This is the stuff that disappears in a flash when you burn off an Aladdin mantle. Inverted gas mantles are most likely preburned and baked on special burners to inflate them to shape, then also soaked in collodion. You also flash them off before use.
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manul
So, the best way make an Aladdin mantle would be to make a gas burner with a good positive pressure that would inflate any soft mesh mantle and bake it. Making a conical form from a refractory material, then burning a mantle on it inside the furnace could also be practical. Flexible collodion can be bought. Flexible is important since there's also hard stuff that will fracture the mantle as it dries. You can potentially use hairspray, too, if you're not planning to store mantle long term.
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manul
Eel wrote:
... blah, blah, blah -  and 3000 words (below).


IMG_20190501_174827681.jpg 

IMG_20190501_174834447.jpg 

IMG_20190501_174847420_HDR.jpg 

Contemporary gas light mantles won't fit in there? The upright ones are still available. Try some
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philbotha
The important difference between Aladdin type mantles and pressure lamp mantles is in the density of the weave. Aladdins have no pressure and depend on the chimney draught to breathe. That is why there is so much space between the threads. The densely woven pressure lamp mantles choke the draught.
-Phil

Favourites: 238B 6/50, Petromax 816 lamp, Petromax 827 lantern, Primus 1020, 1060, 1001, Radius 108, Optimus 1200, 246B 5/41 241A 5/52, Veritas Gloria lamp 1922, Gloria Oxo-Gas 1913 The Evening Star 1924 lamp, The Evening Star 1922 lantern, Sunflame 104(US), Sunflame 106(UK), Bialaddin 300X,TL10, BR49, PL53,
Stoves: Coleman 425B, Primus 96, 523, 535, Optimus 111, Radius 43, Speedmaster 500 D/38

275 Appreciation Syndicate Member #0181 The only one in Africa?
Coleman Blue's 243's. registration #133 (the fourth known 243K)
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MotorcycleDan
Jim,

Give an Aladdin mantle a try. Yes, they are expensive, but as I posted, I have not had any problems with them. I got mine from Kirkman's. I light mine in the house. No start up odor. Also, no odor while running it in the house. I prefer it over a Coleman lamp that has some odor that I can smell. When I shut it down, I turn it down and then carefully carry it outside and shut it down. After it cools, I carefully carry it back inside and put it on the shelf. I have been doing this every night for months and the mantle has not broken or cracked. I do not move mine from room to room when lit. 

Mine have the blue coating. I burn them in starting at the bottom and let them sit for about 10 to 15 minutes just like a Coleman mantle before the first light up. 

Good luck in finding something that works. I will keep an eye on this. 
Dan ICCC #900
ICCC Treasure
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JimL
Until a couple of posts in this thread, I don't recall finding anything positive written about Aladdin mantles posted in the past several years.   After what I read, I hated the thought of $15 mantles that wouldn't last.  Besides, I like to experiment and thought this was worthy of attempting.  When the off and on rain stops, I plan to be back at it.   Although I have a canopy, sitting outside in this weather isn't real inviting to me, especially since the temps are back into the 50's here.

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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JimL
Just a quick/minimal update on my experiment since i finally found a day that it wasn't raining or too windy.

Using the butane torch to try to reshape the mantle did nothing.  I suspected a propane torch was too much, and it was.  It tore the base of the mantle off the mantle frame.

I remembered reading in the past where some folks applied hair spray to a burned-in mantle to preserve it during the car trip to go camping.   I got to thinking that if I used some pump (not aerosol) hair spray and the mantle stayed intact during this wetting, I may be able to reshape it.  Since I had nothing to lose with this now damaged mantle, I tried it and it shows promise.  I was able to manipulate the mantle a bit with a bare finger and it not falling apart where I pushed on it.  This mantle was already done for when I started, but on the next mantle attempt, I'll try the hair spray for a little of the shaping.

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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Eel
Hey Jim -
 I think I sent you some #51 awhile back.  What happens if you cut the string of a #51 on one end and plop that over the burner?

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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JimL
Eel,

The #51 is a much smaller mantle than a Petromax 500cp.  One end needs to be tied at the top, and the bottom is glued down.  I'll have to check, but suspect the #51 style won't be wide enough or long enough.  Perhaps if I'm able to stretch it, it'll no longer be a tight weave.  🙂

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

Quote
Eel
JimL wrote:
  Perhaps if I'm able to stretch it, it'll no longer be a tight weave.  🙂


EXACTLY where I was headed!  And the price on those is right to experiment with...  it will be a stretch to get a #51 end up to that diameter
Care for some #95s to play with?  Same price... 

Some people come home from a GPA gathering with less stuff than they left home with.  Apparently I am not one of those people...

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Erwin
I have a couple of Aladdins and I use them every now and then for a cozy evening in the glass house. No big problems with the factory mantles if handled properly.
I've tried to make some hanging mantles for my French Tito Landi lamps but burning-in is always the probem. Soft (lantern) mantles shrink unevenly and the outcome is somewhat unpredictable. For those lamps I use the old Aladdin "Upright" mantles with magnesia ring whenever possible.
One other question: Who produces the Aladdin mantles right now?
I visited Sam Blank in Manila some years ago just when he was producing Aladdin mantles and I saw the process in detail. Did that business go to India as well? Does that factory also make the Aladdins now beside the Peerless mantles?
Thanks, Erwin.
My homepage: http://www.eschaefer.de
Pls. see navigation on HP for Collectors Maps.
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JimL

Dave,

Thanks, I have some extra #95's for a propane Northstar, but I can't imagine that small tubular mantle working.  I need width to attach the mantle at the base.  I ran across a few more non-Supreme Petromax mantles so with try again with one of those next.  I don't mind burning through those mantles (no pun intended).


Erwin,

I believe it's a safe assumption that the Aladdin mantles are made by the Peerless folks in India.  That was another reason for this experiment.  Amish folks had some bad experiences with their new thorium mantles breaking at the burner cap.  Instead of taking responsibility that there just might be an issue with their process, they blamed thorium for weakening the mantle.    I know the Aladdin mantles do not have thorium, but that attitude left me with a very bad impression of the new Peerless folks.


-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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zoomkat
"I know the Aladdin mantles do not have thorium, but that attitude left me with a very bad impression of the new Peerless folks."

I think it has been reported in the past that the Aladdin #200 mantles are mildly radioactive. Can't say as to the status of the Aladdin kerosene lamp mantles.
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Erwin
Luckily I bought a bunch of Phillipine mantles to stock up some time ago when I heard the business was going to be sold.
I'm curious to hear about the quality of the "new" Aladdin mantles then, if someone have them already.
Thanks, Erwin.
My homepage: http://www.eschaefer.de
Pls. see navigation on HP for Collectors Maps.
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Flat_twin
The only Aladdin mantle early failures I've had were from NOS mantles which are a bit taller than what you can buy now.  Since getting burned (ha ha) on those NOS mantles,  I stick to the modern ones available at the local Amish shop.  If they're not well centered out of the box I do try to tweek them a bit before burning them in.  

FWIW,  I thought the taller NOS mantles did burn a little brighter with more surface area or perhaps different chemistry.  
Mark __________________________________________
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JimL
I plan to stop at Leacock on the way to the Gettysburg gathering and pick up a mantle or two.  My experiments will continue, regardless.

My latest attempt earlier this evening started off fairly well, but I got aggressive turning up the flame and that tore the mantle open from the base.  It may have happened anyway, I just don't know.  I finally had a decent shape, but this was with one of the Petromax non-superior mantles which don't have a tendency to burn in evenly anyway.  There may have just been too much stress at that point.   I think it'll be to small, but will try out a mantle from Eel and see if it's big enough for an experiment.   If not, I'll use up another non-Superior Petromax.   I like the idea of using a Petromax mantle because they're thorium.

-Jim

Author of the children’s books:

 - Santa Claus And Other Lies Your Parents Told You
 - Pop! Goes Froggy, And Other Great Microwave Games
 - Operation and Nomenclature of the Colt 1911-A1 .45 ACP

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Erwin
Jim, I'm curious to read about your latest results.
Please let us know where the Leacock mantles were produced.

Mark, what are "the modern ones,available at the local amish shop"?
Do you know where they were produced?

Thanks, Erwin.
My homepage: http://www.eschaefer.de
Pls. see navigation on HP for Collectors Maps.
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MotorcycleDan
Erwin,

This is the one that has been available here in the states for some time. They are for sale on Kirkman's site, and I just picked up two at an antique store a few days ago. I have not had any problems with them unless I mess them up. 

IMG_0066__1558274836_69.130.123.230.jpg  IMG_0067__1558274869_69.130.123.230.jpg 
Dan ICCC #900
ICCC Treasure
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Flat_twin
The Amish shop sells the same mantle as in Dan's photo.  Made in the Philippines
Mark __________________________________________
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Erwin
Thanks for your information guys.
I have the same ones. Bought them here in Germany.
I saw them being made at the Sam Blank factory in the Phillipines.
Just wondering what is going on now since he sold his business.
Let's wait and see how long those are avialbale and what will come next.....
Thanks, Erwin.
My homepage: http://www.eschaefer.de
Pls. see navigation on HP for Collectors Maps.
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